About Rock Wrecker and Payback

So, I‘ve read that those two moves were recently added to the code (RW obviously because of Rhyhorn CD), so I was wondering if the stats for the moves are already public? I‘m hoping that both will be good, given that Payback was gonna be Machamps move. I‘d assume that we get another voting for CD, and would imagine that if Payback is good, we might see Larvitar next time, with TTar getting Payback (which would hopefully push it back into the Dark conpetition)

Everyone’s got that one person in their life who really needs to learn Payback


Why not just give TTar Foul Play or Dark Pulse? Both are better than Crunch. An upgrade to bite would also help; as it stands, it has Razor Leaf/Charm level energy generation (2/turn), but less damage than either.

On the other hand, Pokemon GO isn’t about reinventing old pokemon, it’s about the next big thing (even when that next big thing is the signature attack for Mewtwo, Kyogre, etc.)

According to Bulbapedia, Tyranitar can learn Snarl and Foul Play. With that moveset, it would jump from 9th to 3rd in Dark DPS and from 3rd to 1st in Dark DPS^3*TDO.

You‘re talking PvP with that. I was on PvE tracks though, where Bite isn‘t THAT bad. Also, how is giving Pokemon like Mewtwo their signature move NOT reinventing old Pokemon? Or in other words, why couldn‘t Payback TTar be „the next big thing“?


Well, it kind of is, except that the way they have been doing it, you can’t take your 100% SB Mewtwo and TM it to get Psystrike. You have to get a new Mewtwo that has Psystrike. So, while it’s the same Base stats and fundamental moveset, it’s a limited release, making it a ‘new thing’. As such, signature moves, at least in the way they were done with Mewtwo, are more about creating a new and different Mewtwo, not reinventing the one we have. This means that if I max out a Groudon now, with substantial investment of dust and candy, when Precipice Blades comes out, my maxed out Groudon will be relegated to mop-up duty, gym attacking, or just collect dust.

If we look at other community day moves that were brand new to the game when they were introduced (Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Smack Down, and Meteor Mash are all top-tier moves for their types), my guess is that Rock Wrecker will be similarly powerful. The only outlier is Synchronoise, which was a strong move when released, but got outclassed when Psychic got buffed.

Payback could also end up being a strong move, but since it was initially intended as a PvP-oriented coverage move for Machamp, it’s possible that it could fall in the category of moves that’s just ok in PvE but shines in PvP.

We’ll likely know for sure within the next couple days!


Not released yet, but dataminers found rock wreker is a clone of bast burn. It was kind of expected, and make the move quite good but not so overpowered, wich is fine.
As for payback, my guess is a spammy 3 bar charge move, it could be fine to use for a lot of fighters when faving ghosts

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Literally twice as good as Stone Edge isn’t overpowered? I mean it’s awesome, but I’m just saying. :joy:

You know what is overpowered? Rampardos.

RW Rhyperior will have 14% higher DPS than SD Rhyperior, overtaking SD Tyranitar and Terrakion.

At least one of my three maxed SD Tyranitars (two perfect, one 93%) will remain useful in Rocket battles (and perhaps Master League)

Payback isn’t in the datamine (yet) so my guesses are a Hydro Cannon copy. Why? Because moves don’t follow their cannon appearances, and it wouldn’t make much sense to give a useless move that isn’t even STAB to one of the best fighters in the game.

it’ll most likely be a fast move or a low energy charge move with pending stats and effect. Doubtful it’ll be anywhere near similar to hydro cannon.

But Niantic needs to give players an incentive to participate in the CD, else everyone would just hoard machop candies with no Payback. Thats why I think it’ll be OP in some way, Niantic needs to make it an incentive. Perhaps its bad in PvE but it has a PvP gimmick in which if Machamp has already taken a Charged Move, it doubles power like the pokémon games?

Mamoswine had ancient power as it’s cd move. There are other incentives outside of the move.

Also even if machamp got payback (hydro cannon clone) it would be nowhere near the top dps list in dark type attacking. No STAB. It would rank 29th as a ghost/dark type attacker.

But Machamp didn’t win the CD vote so it probably won’t be a CD. Payback might still be given as move to another 'mon at the April CD, i.e. Deino.

Deino will not have a CD any time soon. Machamp is more likely to have an event like Minccino but I wouldn’t rule out a CD entirely.

I‘m still rooting for Payback to be a good move in PvE and TTar getting it via a second CD :man_shrugging:

Oops, forgot about Mamo. Well, if Payback was a hydro Cannon clone, Machamp could hold a good spot in PvP as it can dismantle Dialga and Registeel and still dig a dent onto psychics and ghosts like mewtwo and giratina (albeit poorly). If it got it, it would open up for other mons receiving it such as TTar. Immagine Hydro Cannon levels of ttar with snarl. Well, I’m probably exaggerating heavily here but a man can dream, right?

Hydro cannon and two bar moves in general arent the end all-be all of pvp moves. They’re still slower to charge than 3 bar moves. I’d rather have dark pulse buffed and payback be a 3 bar move. Then Hydreigon (has better resistances) could get snarl as a CD move and be more PVE relevant, because lets face it; its very unlikely tyrantiar receives both snarl and a dark type hydro cannon clone anytime soon.