Any way to deal with Charm users?

That’s cool, it’s definitely worth playing to R20 for the ETMs, if you don’t have many. As it’s a grind for X wins per rank at that point it’s doable even if you only win 1 or 2 per set, especially as it’s only the last 3 or 4 ranks where there’s a big win requirement.

As I dip in and out over the season, I tend to try and net my wins in the leagues I enjoy, which makes it less of a slog.

Fairy as a type is great apart from the fact it made steel even better.

The problem is charm because it allows for fairly skilless gameplay. “Yay, I can whack the screen and match ups decide if I win”.

The answer? Boot up pvpoke, find a team that has a tangible plan to you with no explicit weakness and preferably more than one mon strong against them, proceed to no longer find them a problem.

Just be careful of steel types after today’s Swampert cday rerun…

To be honest I hate the Fairy Type because what it means, I love Dragons (Almost all Poke Dragons are in top chart of favorites), Dark (Umbreon) and even some Bug (Scyther) pokemon but nah, forget it, they are countered just by a type that has little to no weakness, Steel are terrible at offensive apart of some exceptions like Metagross, Mawile (that its also Fairy now) or Scizor; with time some new Steel pokemon have been added but in general Steel Pokemon are for Stall or simply lack offensive punch, and ugh, poison, seriously, they Suck (sorry Nidoking, Love you too but…), too many weaknesses to common types and they are resisted by half of the common defensive types and besides Fairies and Grass they are useless at most.

That’s talking about Fairy type meaning for all the franchise, on Pokemon Go is even WORSE, most of the best Fast Moves DPS and EPT wise are Dragon Tail/Breath, Counter, Fury Cutter, and Snarl, what they have in common?, Fairy resist ALL OF THEM, and with 2 attacks (3 at most) you can’t just ruin a pokemon that works perfectly even on ill matchups (like my Milotic with Dragon Tail that can, in some scenarios, triumph against Grass or Electric pokemon if I have a Shield to spare), if I ruin her by giving her waterfall to allow her duel the Fairies on equal ground she turns too weak to face dragons, water or grass pokemon, so I must let her die by Fast Attacks because the raw DPS from Charm makes the shields irrelevant.

I never understood why didn’t give them more ineffective damage to Fairies, to exemplify, Ice resist them (with so many weaknesses no one can say that would break Ice pokemon) and Grass are completely immune, again a type with tons of weaknesses; even lore wise that can be justified, because when someone says that “I don’t believe in fairies” they froze and die, and the Fairies, being guardians of the forest, shouldn’t be able to harm them; and you don’t even need to make them weak to those types, just lowering their obscene high DPS output would be enough.

In fact, I couldn’t invest many Stardust on a Sneasel substitute for the Halloween Cup so I ended searching for anything that I could use within my storage, I ended finding a Jigglypuff that I caught on 2019 15 15 13 and evolved it and with very phew investment (like 30k stardust) it got almost to the limit of 1500 CP with a second attack, and in fact, it’s very easy to use it, Wigglytuff its not only more resilient than Sneasel but its raw DPS its quite strong, my team it’s now a bit more stable, showing that as the games it is now, there is no way to beat the Fairies without getting one of your own.

And for the UL, indeed I have a purified Scyther that, if evolved, would remain below the 2500 CP cap, but that would hurt a lot, because I love Scyther, and it’s my favorite pokemon below just of my top favorite from all time, Umbreon; but Perhaps I will just evolve it to achieve stability on my team.

And after using it I must accept that Charm EPT its terrible, its very hard to get a Charged attack with Wigglytuff, but the truth is, it doesn’t need it most of the times.

1 Like

Whenever the folks at pokemon HQ have created a new type, it has been for balance reasons. Sorry but the reason fairy counters dark and dragon is because they were OP as hell.

Why did we get dark and steel in the first place? They countered stuff like psychic, which as a type ran rampant in gen 1. Dark counters ghost, which even today with dark around is an amazing neutral offensive type.

Aside from steel, what counters fairy? Poison, which needed a leg up. Fire resists and needed a bit of help.

I still don’t agree with steel getting another advantage (again sorry but look at the list of resists steel has to weaknesses, there is just no argument. 10 resists, 1 immunity, 3 weaknesses). Other than that, and I personally agree bug didn’t need another problem, fairy was a great type we needed.

…BTW ice is a great, but unrelated, discussion. Defensively it’s the worst type in the game. Offensively it’s great, hitting dragon, ground etc. (ground is a menace in the main games-blame earthquake).

Edit: really don’t like charm despite the EPT issues. Most charmers still get one charged move off unless super effective fast move damage comes back at them, and don’t always need that charged move. Before people were more aware it was fairly common to see double charm beat down a team, leaving them with a shield. Smack down/charm ABB teams are the scum of the love cup. The funny part? Charm isn’t even a damaging move in the main games, and they made it the highest damage move in pogo…you gotta laugh

1 Like

Whaaaaaaaaat, you don’t like poison! Sacrilege! No wonder you have problems with charmers. At the moment, poison is one of the best typings for at least GL. Poison Jab and poison sting two of the best fast moves; many charged moves are at least decent (cross poison and poison fang among the best); the typing is great because it is only weak to ground and psychic (moves are rare). I only agree that it might be a little bit more difficult to play, since it relies a lot on spam/tactics/(de)buffs.

1 Like

While I am not against the balance of things I think that they way they didn’t was wrong, there was no reason to add Bug as a resistance against fairies.
In fact they solved one problem (Dragons and Dark) by creating an even worse and more annoying one.
Yeah I agree, Steel has too many resistances.
Ice could use a bit of help there.

1 Like

I never said I don’t like posion, I said that Posion its a terrible type to attack, only effective against Fairies and Grass while being resisted by Poison, Ground, Ghost, Rock and technically doubly resisted by Steel.
If you are facing a neutral matchup you may find them strong but the truth is that there are better moves for that.

I use a Crobat on my Halloween Cup but even if It had access to a Posion fast move I would remain with Air Slash.

“The type is great because it is only weak to GROUND”, that phrase alone kills all discussion, to cover for steel almost all teams have or should have access to a Ground attack.

I love Nidoking and Dragalge, and have faced tons of Nidoqueens and Crobats on the Halloween Cup, but lets be honest Posion as an Offensive type, sucks, I ran Posion Fang to lower defense and kinda surprise some fairies, but besides that, Posion its pretty much meh at most, specially if the opponent its not running a fairy on their lineup.

Sorry, for killing the discussion then. I think poison is a good typing, yes, it is definitely not an offensive type, of course, that would be pretty boring, or? Obviously there are offensive typings, defensive typings and some debuff stuff in PoGo and they all have their place. But I also don’t think that Charmers are overpowered, they’re just boring. And there are pretty many ways to deal with them, some discussed above, some employ - well - poison and steel. And if you personally don’t like them for any reason, it is no wonder that you have problems with charmers. The only thing I strongly agree with is an update on the bugs would be highly appreciated. No offense here, the balance is overall quite good (except bug losers), charm seems maybe great at first sight, but since it charges so slow it is not really harmful if you’re used to it. I even run a team double weak to charm in UL (the third is a steel) - it is my best team.
Btw, I’d say that ice is more overpowered at the moment than fairies.

I’ve always disliked that Grass resists Ground but somehow Water and Ice don’t… 🤷🏻

1 Like

I’ve always disliked that Grass resists Ground but somehow Water and Ice don’t… 🤷🏻

I think this particular set of odd scenarios was precipitated by the surprise Supeme Court decision in the landmark case of Paper v Rock.

1 Like

I never said that I dislike Poison type pokemon, in fact, Nidoking and Dragalge are among my favorite pokemon, but my argumentation its not directed towards the uselessness of Posion as a general offensive typing, its directed on how its that, FOR MY TEAM as it is now, fairies are anoyinng as heck, (and the fact that I really despise them for what they did todragons doesn’t help at all to be honest)
Indeed I want to rise a Nidoking and Dragalge but the fact its that I don’t have a decent Nidoran Male to do so and neither the Candies to get my Dragalge means that door is closed for me as it is now; my resourcers are scarce and I am recovering after the heavy investment trying to preprare teams for UL and some preparations for my Dialga, Gyarados and Giratina O for ML (again fully countered by a simple fairy), and I am collecting rare candies for a Kyogre for ML too.
My Crobat for Halloween Cup actually got caught on one of the rewards of an UL win encounter, and I am grateful to that pesky bat as its very reliable and came cheap for me.
If you have the resources you can find hundreds of teams that can laugh at fairies while remaining competitive, that’s not my case, luckily people on this chat ended giving me a nice tip and Scizor will be my answer to them when UL its showed again, because the investment that I’ll need to do to get one its little, it pains me that I’ll have to sacrifice my beautiful Scyther for that horrible looking Scizor, but I can’t argue that later its better than the former and actually kinda solves my problem there.
Again, I don’t hate Poison type pokemon, but I can’t deny that I don’t have access to a good one for UL as I am now without spending ALL my rare candies its not option I want to take, and my stardust amount its barely recovering from almost 0 after investment to barely above 100k as I am wrtiting this.

Pardon?

Um actually, I think its Water that is OP (as it has been since S1). Walrein and Lapras (for instance) have great Ice-type attacks but its the Water typing that gives them staying power.

1 Like

Sadly, there’s only really two Poison-types that see play in UL that don’t require XL (0 in ML, lol): Muk and Crobat (honorable mention for Roserade but that gal usually doesn’t run any Poison moves). I would like to see some slight buffs to Steel-type moves, maybe a damage buff on Metal Claw and Heavy Slam. Nothing earth-shattering, just enough to make a few new things fun to use. That said, I’m with @stativision in yearning for a Bugbite/Fury Cutter buff. #givebugslove

Reminded me of this game show-
Um, Actually. An all things nerdy game show run by the College Humor peeps (now Dropout)

2 Likes

You’re right, I think I too much generalized your statement about poison (and steel) not having good (fast) moves and that - and in my head I was mainly thinking about GL, not UL (which is not available atm). Still think that poison jab and bullet punch are - also offensively - one of the best moves around though ;). Anyway: For UL I even am with you, there are not really any poison mons, which are usable without XL, see @captpepperjack plus venusaur which is really useful of course only with FP. And yes, Scizor looks worse than Scyther :smiley:

@captpepperjack The fact that so many different people have their own OP stuff is a good sign. On defense, Ice needs its water typing to be really effective, I agree. I had more the moves and the offensive side in mind: It is hard to find so many good offensive charged moves as in ice. Avalanche, Icicle spear, weather ball, icy wind (even blizzard, ice punch and ice beam are decent) are among the ten best moves, I’d say. And none of them is even a CD move as for water.

Fair point, I guess there is only really one garbage Ice-type move (Aurora beam) whereas most types have at least a couple that stink (Petal Blizzard, X-scissor, Payback, Zen Headbutt, etc).

Payback in principle quite good, no? Indeed, dark has only good charged moves, but only one good fast move (the others all average/a bit(e) below). Ghost by far the worst, but that’s ok, since SB is (are - if you count the one-timer bone) one of the best moves.

1 Like

Hey pal, I heard you don’t like charmers :joy:.
I’ve read this post since the beggining, I believe it sums the “charm issue” quite well. I do not think fairy is a bad typing, in fact it is a godsent in my opinion (charm is the problem), but as it is debatible it’s just ok.

Thing is you’re missing a very good point here. As @stativision said, poison is just amazing in this game now. And the fun part is that it all started because a lot of people said the same as you: “charm is broken”. Niantic, following a rule of thumb they love, instead of nerfing charm as people asked, buffed poison to amazing levels.

While this is kind of true from a MSG perspective, in this game it does not work exactly that way. Poison jab hits hard, and poison fang is broken. Common sense is that a poison like nidoqueen should lose to a bulky ghost like cofagrigus wich resists its moves. But in fact nidoqueen wins the 2 vs 2 shield going straight poison fang. That gives a general idea of how in this game sometimes rock wins over paper. And nidoqueen is part ground, so you cover the whole 5 types that poison can not hit, 3 of them for SE damage!

Well, no. Counter is way more usefull, but also because ground damage in this game is quite nonexistant outside of charged moves (circunvented by shields if played correctly). As for psychic, outside of confusion and some charged moves there is little place for this typing. For this particular reason 95% of people run poison alongside dark (Sick of this, but makes sense, they cover each other 100%).
This redefined PvP, yo the point dark is right now the most seen type in GBL.

Just a suggestion, this week because of Easter the game is flooded with both nidorans. Just look for a good nidoqueen, both in great and in ultra league. Right now this thing is so oppresive it’s stupid, you won’t never have to care about fairies anymore. Plus you’ll take a lot of other OP mons on the way. Happy hunting

2 Likes

I haven’t found a single 'mon (barring Bronzor in the mirror) that actually benefited from this move being added. Its absolute garbage in PvE and nukey Dark isn’t very useful in PvP when Foul Play and Crunch are coverage moves on almost every 'mon. :rofl: That said, I guess its DPE isn’t technically bad, there’s just never any reason to use it. Ghost has great fastmoves, one good chargemove that everybody has, but not a lot else…not much to pull from either so I doubt that’s going to change.