Title kind of speaks for itself. I just remember around gen 1 people started building. 4 star units with 10 merges on them, and some of them I remember being pretty nasty. I know the meta has changed a LOT since then but I was just wondering what you all think, or if it’s even worth the feathers you save from doing it.
Tbh, I would never feel satisfied making a 4-star +10. In fact, I’d feel filthy. But while they aren’t viable, they can sometimes be good.
They have the same stats as a 5* + 5, so yes if you don’t feel like spending the feathers. But I only do this for budget units I don’t think are worth promoting to 5 star
They’re good budget AA units or good choices when you don’t care for the character enough to invest 200,000 feathers in them.
I made my Roy and Soren 4 Star merges; it helps that I originally pulled then as 5 Stars before their demotion.
I’m glad you said that cause the reason why I was asking was cause I was thinking about making a 4* +10 Soren.
I had enough spare Sorens to immediately make him stronger than he was as a +1 5 Star. As I don’t care much for his character, he doesn’t get a whole lot of use, but he is handy every so often for Arena Assault and the like.
I have a lot of 4*+10’s and can say it’s totally worth it. There are exceptions, off course (grail units, duh), but 4*+10 is simply significantly stronger then 5*+0 or +1. Therefore, you need to ask yourself a couple things.
- Is it likely that you will want to 5*+10 this unit later?
- Do you intend to use this unit in regular Arena?
- Do you need this unit at maximum power?
- Do you like this unit for whatever reason (aesthetics, nostalgia, waifu)?
If the answer to all these questions is no, then there is no reason not to 4*+10. There is another dilemma - do you 5* a single copy to obtain better skills? Really depends on the purpose of the unit. For instance, I am using a M!Corrin as my Kagero buff-bot in AR offense. I don’t need him to score well, but the added stats from being 4*+10 (as opposed to 5*+0) are welcome. I also needed his Yato (obviously), but didn’t need the extra 2 points in all stats from being 5*+10. All in all, getting him to 4*+10 with Yato cost me 20k feathers, and he is performing very well for me.
I’m using some 4*+10 on my astra teams, Lilina and Kagero. From a pragmatic standpoint they work. If I didn’t do 4*+10 then I would probably do 5*+1, which has 1 less atk for more feathers, but it’s probably what I’ll do if Sothe goes on my light team because I want him for L&D fodder
This. And what Seeker said about fodder. It’s 11 copies of a unit to make as strong as 6 copies, but you save a bunch of feathers.
I’d say it depends on three things.
How much are you willing to invest? If you’re going to invest any more than a super budget build, you should do a 5* +10 for the extra stats.
What mode is the unit designed for? If it’s for GHB, TT, or other non-competitive modes, a 4* +10 should be fine. But if its for AR or Arena, those extra stat points could be the difference between getting a new tier or not.
What unit are you building and what is the build? If you’re building something like a bladetome, you won’t need the extra stats because you’ll be attacking with true damage, but if the hero you’re building needs more stats to activate a key ability (Example: Ploys), then you should go with a 5* build. In Soren’s case, if you plan on using his Wind’s Brand, I’d go with a 5* version, but if you’re going to use a bladetome, a 4* should be good enough.
For me, the decision falls thusly:
- Do I care about the unit?
- do I not care about the unit?
If you care about the unit, then no. 5* +10 all the way. If you don’t care about them, what’s the point of investing in them at all?
I mostly regret my 4*+10 units though, or even ones that are 4*+5 and higher. Either for fodder, or simply a desire to build them, or maybe they finally got that weapon refine. I think if you are a newer player, it will help climb arena quicker and easier on the resources, but if you are in for the long run, they will just be wasted small investments. So if you do eventually decide to build this unit, that’s 10 less copies you have for further merging - which is where the wasted resources come into play.
I had a 4* +10 Est and Chereche, and with their weapon refines decided to bump them up to a 5* unit. Both are +1 now and will want to add more merges eventually, but obviously was a waste of resources (though not entirely since this was pre-manual era).
Keep in mind those 4*+10 units cannot use the dual skills, so this immediately dashes any hope for use in high tier arena. Likely AR too, as stat points do matter there. Nothing like seeing a perfectly lethal shot kill off your unit.
Well they could, but they would still score badly which ruins the point.
In AR we use unmerged units and perhaps merged ones as well. Tanks generally need merges (though I’ve had good results with Nailah+0 and inconsistently, Fjorm+0) but our ability to succeed with unmerged units proves that some 4*+10 would work just fine.
In general people have an unnecessary obsession with 5*+10. If you farm feathers you can get away with it more easily, but a lot of units perform excellently at 5*+0 or 4*+10 and I suggest that we don’t have nearly enough feathers to 5* merge most of the characters we like. 5*+10 is a very heavy investment and I really recommend saving this treatment for units who you’re really into, like, your top 5-10 in the franchise, or units whose work on the battlefield you really like, or both
(Edit) About Soren specifically, the owltome effect on Wind’s Brand really means 5* merge is preferable, but I don’t really like him as a combatant even at 5*+10 so I’m going 4* merge or 5* unmerged depending on how many times I fodder his fortify. I would rather use the feathers elsewhere.
I have few 5*+10, and enjoy using a bunch of 5* or 5*+1. I prefer not merging, but hitting the ceiling since my tank (Garon 5*+3) is losing a few battles to minimal points. So I do want to build that up, but also trying to get my arena team situated. My Soren is 5* +8 and just waiting on 2 more copies to show up. He’d have been there if I didn’t make it 4*+4 or whatever it was before I started this. He’s not a favorite unit, but more an arena score bot so I can stay in Tier 21 (constantly fall and rise to every other week).
The only time a 4* +10 is not viable is in Arena core teams.
Is it smart to 4* +10 a unit like Raigh, Boey, Mae, or any other low rarity units when they don’t have prf weapons? Definitely not, but they are still powerful nonetheless.
That’s another thing I recommend people to avoid, throwing feathers at arena points. Sheena and Gwendolyn used to be popular merge projects due to 170BST, and people merged them even if they didn’t like them as units or characters, and then duel skills came out and they were kicking themselves, and then units like Rutger and S.Ylgr merge to 170BST and embarrassed them again. Even if duel skills never came and IS didn’t powercreep infantry to 168BST and allow us to merge off banes, they would still have to live with the knowledge that they threw boatloads of powerful, valuable, and limited resources at points in a system that is obviously and blatantly stupid and designed to give empty fame to heavy spenders who probably aren’t even that good at enjoying the game if they don’t know better than to shove money in a hole like that. Not that everyone who decides to buy +10 of a unit is a lousy player (especially if it’s their favourite among favourites), but the system is designed to exploit people who really don’t see absurdity when it stares them in the face and to reward foolishness, and people still put a premium on its meaningless ranking instead of doing what was in their hearts to do.
I guess arguably that makes me a hypocrite because if people really like looking at gold borders and 5*+10 then maybe I should support them in it, but I’m more interested in what happens on the map than in the “edit teams” screens
Unless you have 22+ of Raigh at 4* and don’t fodder rally atk and HP+5 to everything. Then there’s scarcely a reason not to, unless you want to send him home for feathers.
I mean, yeah. If you have a crap ton of him and don’t need the fodder then go ahead.
I mean, Sheena and Gwendolyn are still quite good. No other 3-4* unit can match their defenses, and they can run Distant Counter while still scoring 170. Gwendolyn admittedly has competition from Effie’s 10 extra attack, but Sheena has no competition outside of 5* locked units.
Not that they are bad units. Sheena can do really interesting stuff nowadays at max merge such as hack-o-lantern on 49+ res or 40+ spd with faithful axe still maintaining over 40 mixed defenses. My criticism was against people who didn’t actually like them, especially on +spd, and dumped tons of investment on them anyways.
Yes that is very valid. I have never liked armors (still don’t) so I don’t have those kinds of regrets thankfully. I had started to build a Sheena (she’s only +4) when the dual skills came around. I thankfully picked up 2 Helbindi’s and gave one to Anna (oops) and once the inherit skill was bumped to 4, I gave G Duel 3 and IP3 to Soren, who is regarded as one of the better (best?) support units in the green 3*-4* pool, especially since he can run dual chills (could be triple if more are released as seals). So I decided to craft him and he’s up to +8. I don’t know what else IS can do to ruin this investment for me now, but hopefully I can get some good use outta him until then.