Arjuna (Alter) General Discussion

Arjuna spooks have long been a joke in FGO, but if we convert Arjuna to a space cat and give him only 1 actual banner ever, does that make him better? Yes.

GP review

I’m going to start by saying I’ve used Arjuna Alter quite a bit for farming in JP, and regarding his ranking in EX- tier…well, I disagree. I do. (I also do for Kama and Tamamo but whatever). Is he good? Yes, yes he is. Is he as good as people think? I’m not convinced of that because he does have some glaring weaknesses (though tbf some of them are things just about everyone has). Anyway, I’m sure y’all will tell me how wrong I am in the comments and that’s fine, this is a discussion, we can have different opinions.

Skills:

S1 pairs what would be a normal selfish 3-turn 30% Attack buff with an absolutely bonkers 50% SPECIAL Attack buff vs. “Debuffed” enemies except Unremovable debuffs, so some very specific boss fights? - and don’t let it being 50% fool you, what this does is basically doubles his attack (an attack which is already pretty high, ranking 5th among the Berserkers). And it doesn’t even have a longer-than-normal CD to go with it - both these buffs are active for 3/5 turns.

S2 is another great skill, paring a very large Buster-specific star absorb with a 30% battery. If Carnival Phantasm taught me anything, it’s that Berserkers can’t be trusted to go out and grab batteries - AA is only the 2nd AoE Berserker with an actual battery (since Chacha’s is spread out over a few turns instead of being all at once). And he’ll stay like that since Summer Bryn next year also only has NP regen instead of an on-demand battery for turn 1 farming. So Arjuna Alter is just a reskinned Spartacus, that theft is oppression

S3 is a weak skill on Arjuna - it’s a Guts with a smaller revive and a 3 turn heal. On many other Servants this skill would be nice to have - but on a Berserker with no other means of survival (Evade/Invincibility/Def Up/Damage Cut/Attack or Crit Down/always suffering from taking double damage) it’s just kinda there. Paired with the right people like Reines/Waver/Merlin it could come in handy.

Skill (and Ascension) Mats:

A Gold Servant needs Gold mats - he takes Grease, Lamps, Hearts and Eggs for his Ascensions and takes Lamps, Grease, Rings, and Eggs for his Skills.

72 Rings (32); 33 Lamps (34); 32 Grease (31); 6 Hearts (35); 35 Eggs (20)

Lamps and Grease probably won’t be a problem, and Hearts would be if you needed more than 6. Eggs will be the real delay here for most people - you get idk, 10ish or so of those 20 from the story (I’ve heard different amounts from different people) and they have a bad drop rate.

Mat Farming Locations and (Approximate) AP Cost:

Rings (Giant’s Flower Garden, LB2): 3,528 AP

Hearts (Carter Residence, Salem): 976.8 AP

Eggs (Thevar, LB4): 5,974.5 AP

Total: 10,479.3 AP/// 37 Days (Natural AP regen)// 75 Gold Apple Refills.

Verdict:
His 3rd skill is his worst and can probably be left at whatever point you run out of the mats for it. S1 is his best in regards to damage but S2 lets him NP on turn 1 easier if it’s the full 30%, so which one you go for first depends on if you’re running him with CEs like Aerial Drive or CEs like MLB Kscopes. If you’re short on Lores just his S2 would get one for the full 30% battery but you’d probably want them for his S1 if you can spare it.

NP:
His NP is an AoE Buster that inflicts a pre-damage Buster Resist Down - upping the damage quite a bit with his S1 to about 56k*/enemy total (31k* if they resist his Buster debuff). (*That’s with his Berserker class advantage already).

But otherwise it doesn’t do anything special, it’s just a nuke. On someone who’s meant to just kill things though, that’s not really a bad thing to have them be simple to use. And 56k/enemy @just NP1 is a really good place to be for dealing damage, since any outside Charisma/NP damage/Buster buffs will push that even higher.

Outlook:

The closest comparison for Arjuna Alter is going to be Raikou - they both have crit star absorb, AoE Buster NPs, the potential for supereffective damage, and some survival. Arjuna gets the nod for ease of NP and the ability for more Buster brave chains. Really most of what Raikou can do, Arjuna can do better. Her NP damage vs. either of her traits (let alone both) is better than his even if they’re debuffed, and she has 2 Arts cards that could also crit (and she has in-kit crit damage buffs now) for NP gain, but her Buster buff is only 1 turn and her face cards will hit for less in general, especially so if Arjuna has both parts of his S1 in play. You also can’t control if the enemy is Demonic/Sky/Earth while you can (usually) control if they’re debuffed or not. And a battery is more reliable than trying to use face cards for NP gen.

Final word

If you want to use Arjuna Alter for gameplay (because for design the answer is always "yes summon if you like them) - there are a couple of things you have to make sure you’re doing. He’s very reliant on others making him stars/providing him star gen buffs if you want to crit on his Busters, he’s reliant on others for NP charging past turn 1 if you want to use him for wave clearing, and he needs outside crit buffs and, most importantly, outside sources of debuffs for sustained damage, because that alone takes his damage from “sky-high” to “yeah, pretty good”. Merlin can debuff with his S2, Skadi with her S2, Reines and Waver with their NPs, but you’re going to want to load up on sources of that so it’s always ready for him, whether from other Servants or from Command Codes. And in fights (like some recent ones), where the enemy is debuff immune, or if they spam debuff removal, or have other forms of defense like Evade or Invincibility, AA falls off a cliff since he doesn’t have any way to deal with that (though as I said at the start, a lot of Servants don’t have that and you can work around it just fine).

Arjuna Alter is one of those Servants that I say is good, but is best when someone else put in the work to summon and level and you just borrow to help you clear stuff.

28 Likes

First!


Okay I see a lot of people calling him a five star Spartacus. I actually think that is a great analogy because Spartacus is one of the best servants (for his rarity) in the game! He is arguably better than Chacha who is a four star!

All of Spartacus’s advantages put into a five star with a trait advantage that makes him hit as hard as a ST servant?

Yes please!

Oh and Ascension 3 is so smexy that he almost makes me question myself as a gyne-romantic ace!

22 Likes

His meh np recursion outside of insane rng resetting and praying to him that he crits on his art and quick already makes him not worth it for me tbh.

Still aesthetic though

5-star Spartacus is basically how I saw him as soon as I looked at the skills.

3 Likes

I’m a hard believer of Mama Raikou supremacy and thanks to miine’s NP2, level 100 and gold Fous her damage is not that far behinid from his at NP1 level 90 while definetely surpassing his once her NP buff arrives. She is also a more consistent Crit Attacker as she makes the stars she needs to actually crit while having her own crit buff to not depend on supports to provide it for her.

Having said all that, I am rolling his banner for Asclepius and currently Raikou:

  1. Is Bond 10.
  2. Lacks a battery.

So If I somehow lucksack and get him, he will be very much welcomed and will have a steady job replacing my Bond 9 Spartacus for most situations that do not require Spartacus’ low cost.

10 Likes

One thing I do like about AA over Raikou is that his survival skill, while worse, is completely separate from his other skills. AKA no more sacrificing possible damage just to survive.

6 Likes

For me the big deal is that he can hit very high damage in all standard content and in most higher difficulty content with a minimum of support compared to most other options.

Also worth mentioning is that he really doesn’t need as many stars as one might think since his gather skill is specific to Buster. It won’t help his Arts or Quick crit, but you can create more “NP optional” setups if desired thanks to the sheer power of his cards.

21 Likes

I agree with @The_Wyandotte’s final point.

Why should I summon him when I can borrow @Gou’s NP5 AA?

I’ll probably roll a bit because I’m not smart and can’t follow my own advice

21 Likes

Aside from cleaving planets in half here and there, I’m mostly just looking forward to having this chat with Mash shortly after he arrives.

Gameplay wise though, I’m mostly here for his independence. Most Servants need doubles of their favourite support to stand up to what he’s capable of with one or none if you invest hard enough, which is always nice.

5 Likes

I am rolling for him because 1, awesome animation and model and 2, I plan on using him mostly in CQs where NP damage and crits are both important. His buster star gather helps when I can’t flood the floor with passive star gen. Sure He’s never going to be a farming powerhouse for events, but he still should be very capable of FQ buster farming when CE slots aren’t an issue.

Debuffing isn’t going to be an issue since we are going to get/have a bunch of CCs with good synergy (curse, and especially burn with honey lake)

2 Likes

Okay, you get a like for the cats in space, I can appreciate that. :fgo_goodciv:

He does look cool, and I’m already gonna summon for Ashwattama, so if he shows up it’ll be cool, but very unexpected. I guess it depends on my Karna on whether Arjuna will be welcomed to my Chaldea or not, they don’t get along too well, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he messes with the summon somehow. :fgo_karnapeek:

3 Likes

regarding his ranking in EX- tier…well, I disagree.

My understanding is that EX-tier means that the Servant enables the entire party to do things that they cannot otherwise do.

Arjuna’s skills are excellent, but selfish. He may well be the very best possible AoE DPS Zerker, but that’s all that he is.

AA is an A-tier servant, at best. He doesn’t do anything to elevate the party, or enable other servants to T1 NP or loop like Waver or Skadi. He doesn’t create stall wins like Merlin.

If GP is going to toss “EX” ratings on strong individual servants, then Jalterzerker should be rated just as high, and superior semi-supports like Helena should be even higher, although I don’t know what that label would be. Giving AA an “EX” rating cheapens the ratings of servants like Helena, Tammy and Waver.

For me the big deal is that he can hit very high damage in all standard content and in most higher difficulty content with a minimum of support compared to most other options.

The most obvious ‘other options’ are DSS Zerkalot and DCS Musashi.

Is AA better than DSS Zerkalot or DCS Musashi?

When irregular nodes hit and zerkerlot and musashi can’t consistently loop yes I’d say AA is better. Also in many cases I’d argue AA is better for cq applications but that’s a case by case thing cq dependent

Now most standard nodes I’d give it to the loopers cause of how efficient and easy it is 90% of the time. High end and irregular is when it gets fuzzy

8 Likes

Lol Jerker is nowhere near AA level and definitely isn’t EX level for four stars

13 Likes

His banner cannot arrive soon enough. He has been the servant that I borrowed the most in JP by far… I won’t use him that much in my NA account because more developed roster and all but oh boy, I’m going to enjoy those easy big numbers :fgo_insane:

4 Likes

When irregular nodes hit and zerkerlot and musashi can’t consistently loop yes I’d say AA is better.

Wait, AA can 3T loop 1/1/X nodes?

Please explain.


@C-luck_dragon

Jerker is nowhere near AA level and definitely isn’t EX level for four stars

And that’s why AA isn’t “EX-tier.”

“DSS” etc. says it all. It’s hard to name another Servant who hits the notes he does without their optimal support. This is appealing because he works beautifully where you want a certain job done but don’t want to (or can’t) bring the entire support harem.

14 Likes

If you’re implying that Jalter Zerker is to her rarity what AA is to his, that’s a huge no.

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If those 3 are the only options for 1/1/x you might as well pick AA for battery and run a 2nd dps and not worry about looping at all

9 Likes