Best Groudon to use in Master League


This is my first post here.

I have a question for you PVP experts. I have 2 Groudons and I want to Elite TM one with Fire punch for the Master league.

Which one would you use, i. e. which one would be better for PVP?

Groudon A- 93% 13att-14def-15hp (shiny+lucky, but also need to max it up)
Groudon B- 89% 15att-13def-12hp (already maxed up)

Is the trade off in overall IV for a better attack stat worth it?

Thank for your insight!

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Interesting, how much Groudon candy do you have? Do you raid a lot to get more rare candy?

I raid a lot, usually every day or 2 days at the most.

I have 0 Groudon candys at the moment, but lots of Rare Candys. My non maxed Groudon is at level 27 (3146 cp) and it would take 206 candy to max it up.

In the end I dont care if I have to invest more in this one, i want the stronger one, period.

Mud Shot isn’t meant to damage, so the 13A will lose to the 15A in a mirror match bc the higher attack will fire off first. Other than that doesn’t really matter, in fact the higher defense and HP will get a few (2-3) extra HP vs Dialga compared to the 15a. However, attack on Dialga a different story bc Dragon Breath damages, get 15a and level 41 when possible.

So if I understand well, I should go with the 15a because in most tie breakers it’ll fire first because of it’s higher attack?

In my opinion both your Groudon are practically/functionally the same, except one is shiny and the other needs less candy. However, if you used the shiny and you lead with it: realize you need some luck (bait and hope for a shield with an FP to gain energy advantage) to beat almost every other FP/EQ Groudon that also leads. Some people might not have FP though and fake that they do, rarely. Also rare but someone might actually power up their research FP…maybe that one has 13A, too?

I’ll be honest with you… I’ve got two maxed Groudons and I wouldn’t even use them in Master League, because they get ripped to shreds by grass, water and a whole bunch of other oddities.

If you’ve got candy to invest in anything, I’d suggest Togekiss.

Last season in Master League Groudon was a closer and something that could takedown Melmetal bc Superpower barely dents Groudon. This time (w/ Fire Punch and EQ) Melmetal is running away…fast. Perfect IVs aren’t making FP+EQ great…swarms of Dialga and Melmetal do that

Grass is nonexistent in ML. Groudon is excellent vs steel. Why shouldn’t one use it, especially with Fire Punch? Ah - you might run an all-steel-team and don’t want to have good opponents? :smiley:
@martinc84 : I guess in that specific example you would barely notice any difference. Groudon-A would probably be a tiny bit ahead in 3 very very specific scenarios, while Groudon-A would be a tiny bit ahead in 5 other different scenarios (of, lets say, 1000).

Too bad Elite TMs are rare.

But if Weedle community day happens to have one of those boxes, here it goes. The next one.

Grass is essentially nonexistent in Master League, so nothing to fear there. Ice is used infrequently enough that it won’t cause you too many problems either, and will get destroyed by Fire Punch. Water will be the biggest counter to Groudon (Kyogre, Palkia, Swampert), followed by pretty much anything that has a Flying sub-typing (Dragonite, in particular, as it resists everything Groudon does).

That said, Groudon can perform really well in Master League, particularly as a hard counter to the commonly-used Steel-types. I think it will be one of the more common Mons to build around this season.

Very pertinent comment. I Yup, I see it really depends on the scenarios.

So you think there will be lots or Mirror matchs (Groudon vs Groudon)?

And overall which scenarios do you think are more likely to occur more often?

Thanks for the insights everbody.

I expect with Groudon and Kyogre a similar situation as now with Venusaur and Swampert: a hunter and a prey that loses just by switch advantage. I think there will be a lot of anti-meta this time around.

Personally, I would go for the less attack stat groudon in general. Because I think three or four hit points additionally have slightly more advantage in general fight situations, whereas the attack addition 1) doesn’t give you always advantage even in mirror matches, since there are for sure many best friends maxed out Groudons out there and 2) I save mostly some energy and fire off a charged attack a bit later, but this of course depends. But there is of course no guarantee that this or that Groudon in the end will be better, but I guess you know that ;)

But in your special case I would invest the stardust and rare candy elsewhere, because as said, the impact is, in my opininon, too little to play a role which is big enough to justify the investment. Except of course you have 1 million stardust and 400 RC…

I have more than 1 million stardust, but not 400 RC. I stack them up quickly thought, that’s why i am asking this question in advance, so I know what to do with my RC.

I mostly play with a Dialga/Heathran/Dragonite/Machamp core, but I really need a Steel counter, (Machamp is a glass cannon), my FT/SE Heathran does a decent job, but being steel himself he is soft to ground and Fightning types (Hello Melmetal and Metagross).

Unless I max out my Kyogre instead,? Not a hard counter on steel/fight types, but it should win most matchups against these. If no my only other options are non legendary (except mewtwo).

Maybe I should wait and see…

Of course you first should wait and see. With all the new things to come one does not know where the meta evolves to and which new legendary might be worth the RC. We have a bit UL in front of us anyway.

I’ll do that, and it’s also not like I don’t have other choices (maxed up M2, Palkia, Rhyperior…) .

I also still have my 3 elite TM (man I am scared to use them).

Patience is a virtue.

Uh, Palkia. That’s interesting. I don’t have one.

Much as I admire you Scott, and I do, I am never again going to use a Groudon in ML.

I don’t really think ground types have much of a place in ML, or anywhere else to be fair. I Swampert them, or Kyogre them, or if I’m stuck between switching I blast them with fire. There’s hardly any situation I’ve found that I can’t just counter them. I know they’re good for some things, but…


… is a real gem!

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