Best operators to max level

Hi guys

These recent Vigilo clears leave me feeling that e2-40 might not be cutting it any more at the highest level and was hoping for a bit of a discussion on who you guys prioritise max levelling from a tactical gameplay point of view

Mon3er’s difference in attack is 142 which with the S2M3 skill multiplier adds 511 damage


I imagine Surtr would be another great example

Ops like Exusiai might be interesting too. For her the base damage doesn’t change much +58 from e2-40 to e2-90 but with her talent and S3M3 it stretches to +70 and with a Warfarin S2M3 (who she’s often paired with) it’s totalling at 133 on every hit

As physical damage is top ended (damage = atk - def), I can see this making quite a large impact at times with her firing so rapidly

Has anyone seen or done a detailed study?
Or does anyone have other examples of Ops with skills that see a large difference from e2-40 to e2-90?

3 Likes

I just max the ones I think are cute :ak_elysiumshrug:

5 Likes

Mostly just for waifu only, but if we talk about gameplay, then it’s

  • Physical dps gain more than Arts dps due to how the damage formula works. Extra Arts damage is always reduced by Res, but extra physical damage might as well be true damage.
  • Operators who are expected to take hits but aren’t dedicated tanks really appreciate higher HP and Defense. So the likes of Saria/Blaze can use the levels, but Hoshi/Croissant/Cuora/etc. generally have enough stats already. Specter is a fantastic choice, the extra HP/Defense helps her survive the 5 seconds between deployment and s2 or between s2 casts, and higher Attack is very welcome when she’s often the only one attacking and has a limited dps window thanks to self stun.
  • Operators who will be going solo are relying only on their own power, so higher stats allow them to solo in more situations. This is a broad category; the likes of Phantom and Thorns/Mountain/Mudrock/Blaze are both included, anyone who is used independently from the main squad.
  • Burst dps have a limited time-frame in which to dps, so they like having higher Attack to fit as much dps into their burst window as possible. For the likes such as SA/Eyja/Mon3tr, Eyja s2 also benefits from higher Attack. Surtr isn’t as high a priority, as she tends to kill things well enough already. Angelina and Carnelian/Beewax/Mint on the other hand are incredibly versatile and very useful in hard content, and with their “can’t attack during downtime” their burst windows matter even more. Maxing their level makes a noticeable difference
  • Healers that aren’t Medics like having extra Attack in order to keep up with healing demand, like Saria benefits a lot from the extra durability, and extra Attack improves the healing from all her skills; Medics generally have enough healing already, Perfumer is a different case since the more atk she has, the better her talent works. Jaye is another case, his healing scales with his damage dealt, so higher Attack stat can drastically increase his healing. And the faster he does his job the less time he spends on field and the less DP he eats. Skadi alter S2 and S3 rely on her stat alot either with healing or atk buff so the higher the better
  • Summoners trade quality for quantity when it comes to summons; levels help restore their quality, such as Magallan, Mayer, Deepcolor, aside from Ling’s summons which are powerful enough even without max lv. This applies to non-Supporters too, like Phantom and his clone.

Those are just random opinions, you can just ignore them :ak_elysiumshrug:
TLDR: waifu is the best option :fgo_kamagrimace:

7 Likes

700 [E2 LV40 Max Trust Atk] x (1 + 3.3 [S3M3]) = 3010
772 [E2 LV90 Max Trust Atk] x (1 + 3.3 [S3M3]) = 3319

So it’s about a difference of about 309 per hit which isn’t really that big - you’re probably hitting the same damage benchmarks either way - and the same goes for a good chunk of other E2LV40 vs E2LV90 OPs. Thorns damage S3M3 per hit only jumps up by about sub-200 and Mudrock’s S3M3 gain is only about 250+. I guess it could add up but overall I’d say the gains don’t really make a difference

Surtr does get a bit of HP from the levels which could delay the forced retreat if you need her to stay on the field for longer


I’d say max is really more of a luxury than necessity though, cases where you actually might want the extra stats are just extremely specific and aren’t really warranted unless you’re trying to restrict yourself to that point. On top of that the extra stats might not even affect the outcome and you could reasonably hit those same DPS/Survival benchmarks at lower levels. It’s like trying to max out specific stats in an RPG where you don’t need to, and those extra stat points could be used somewhere else

The only case where I would say you’d really want max are for Summoners since the Summons do scale with their own stats, but that still just gets into extremely specific hyperimposed restriction territory you put on yourself


SA

  • 687 [E2 LV40] x (1 + 0.1 [1st Talent] + 2 [S3M3]) = 2130 x 30 / 1.3 = 49154
  • 763 [E2 LV90] x (1 + 0.1 [1st Talent] + 2 [S3M3]) = 2365 x 30 / 1.3 = 54577
  • +235 / +5423

Eyja

  • 673 [E2 LV40] x (1 + 0.14 [1st Talent] + 1.3 [S3M3]) = 1642 x 15 / 0.5 = 49260
  • 735 [E2 LV90] x (1 + 0.14 [1st Talent] + 1.3 [S3M3]) = 1793 x 15 / 0.5 = 53790
  • +151 / +4530

Kal

  • 1260 [E2 LV40] x (1 + 2.6 [S3M3]) = 4536
  • 1402 [E2 LV90] x (1 + 2.6 [S3M3]) = 5047
  • +511

Now that’s actually a pretty big bump in power especially considering it’s TD, unfortunately I can’t crunch the actual numbers on total DPS cuz I don’t remember what the decay rate for the atk bonus was, and IDK where the program I wrote to calc it is anymore so…

Ange

  • 565 [E2 LV40] x (1 + 1.5 [S3M3]) = 1413 x (25 x 0.6) = 21195
  • 617 [E2 LV90] x (1 + 1.5 [S3M3]) = 1543 x (25 x 0.6) = 23145
  • +130 / +1950

Okay…

  • 755 [E2 LV40] x 1.3 [S2M3] = 982 x 20 / 2 = 9820 + (755 x 3 [S2M3 End] = 2265) = 12085
  • 807 [E2 LV90] x 1.3 [S2M3] = 1049 x 20 / 2 = 10490 + (801 x 3 [S2M3 End] = 2421) = 12911
  • +67 / +670 / +156 / +826

I could keep throwing out calcs here but between this and the ones I’m doing for the pokemon teams I’m making I think that’s enough for the day. Besides I think I’ve made my point on how little difference maxing actually makes on the actual numbers

6 Likes

An example for that when I made a strat for Grim, my Thorns at lv 40 couldn’t defeat defense crushers and let two of them slip, but a max lv Thorns could hold the line easily. But overall yes, max lv doesn’t affect much unless you want to max risk CC which recently is a hell lot easier than before with CC7, you don’t even need max pot max lv for max risk, bring back CC beta lv of hard HG :fgo_seibagun:

6 Likes

My favorites cause they’re the ones I bring most often. :fgo_gudako:

4 Likes

Only my favourites or the ones I feel like are very useful no matter the stage (Surtr, Kaltsit etc).

Tho lvl 90 is very expensive to begin with so I guess only fave operators should get this sort of treatment if ever. :fgo_bbsmile:

1 Like

To me this is less a tactical question and more a strategic one.

Nevermind (rant?)

I think this is too much a strategic question. I mean to prepare for the future by making choices. Even the unknown future. To think of future short-term ability and comfort. That’s strategic effort for future tactical superiority, in some views. Atleast, people can approach the thinking like that.

Personal though. I like enjoying the possibilities of the game. I don’t worry of victory or defeat as much as ventures gained.

Whatever. In order to max level an operator a player must invest pretty heavy. They’d probably be fans or fanatics if they don’t atleast spread some. Such as just winging it with their favorites.

And why not? It’s fun to flex in times of peace. Many of my ops are higher level for random reasons.

Whatever (kinda rant)

Too big topic. Real life thing: people can be driven to slave away for local rulers in fear of what happens if the army ain’t fed properly next time the barbarians invade. Even people that never saw a barbarian. Funny thing.

But if it’s a personal question, then I’d suggest you lock on your own motives and goals, and game related methods. Exusiai is really good with buffs & debuffs for example. To the extreme, Shamare S2 + Exu S2 + Pramanix S2 is really absurd. You could have Shamare in a remote place pitching in whenever…

Problem is no matter the dps potential, foes not in range take 0 dps. Also, even a full phys dmg team can’t keep peak debuff endlessly. True dmg is limited. Arts would be absurd if too easy to area spam & debuff. Theoretical wipe-outs with enough slow & stall…

I’d say reinforce your working strategies. The most power creep thing in arknights isn’t foe stats as much as their number, spread & speed. Case in point that you can’t lose all your Hp, just your sanity.

And the problem with enemy skills isn’t their dps or vitality. But the ability to knock out things to stop others from stopping them.

Well. I’d recommend thinking not stats but power coverage. Versatily & effectiveness is vital. Multi-hit is multiplicative. Time of target in range is multiplicatve. Viability of attack is multiplicative. Phys dmg has great peaks & horrible lows. Skill timings are multiplicative but inflexible. Targeting issues change many multipliers absurdly.

I’d note that if you’re maxing out only certain ops. Their synergy potential that you can reach matters. With Exu, if maxed, I’d consider both S2 and S3 at M3 seriously. Exu actually has stronger hit spam potential than both Archetto and Ash situationally. Temp buffs & debuffs are strong on her. But if you don’t debuff, she’s not Surtr. Sustained deploy has targetting issues vs ground.

TLDR

Goal is to stop leaks. Or prevent friendlies being harmed / destroyed. If maxing is what you want, I’d recommend maxing out those ops that don’t cut it but would, in upcoming situations. If you want.

Personally what cuts it is my fun. Which is half what Azurem said. Probably also half proper comfort or strategy & 3/4 blowing things up.

Hmm

Please also note that an operator that gets K.O.ed at a bad moment is not cutting it. Hence the greatness of healers & high def blockers. Also, keeping foes in range or switching their positions helps AoE / single targets. So honestly, frontliners tend to need sufficient stats. Summoners / blockers / dps. Less so for buffers & debuffers. But if you bring them often, more arts damage is generally nice. Healing is critical at thresholds.

Honestly. Stat breaking points matter, but I care more of range breaking points. Like a medic that can’t reach that one square just can’t. Which, sets limits.

Ops

Blaze is notable. She gains absurd casual power. High level enough and she can dual Defense Crushers and win after recovering from knockout once. And sometimes eliminate a just on time mob with two or three hits so they don’t leak either.

May can better solo flying units & unblockables on S1. Let her solo finish a low def engineer or spent bomber drone from the rear. Pretty neat. Also dogs. Better dps coverage for self-stun related leaks. Although I don’t need that last one so far. I had Blaze before Specter.

Perfumer for global healing? Useful. Extends op survival on levels with poison & without.

Some burst physical dps ops. Especially high atk speed units. Any solo self-sustain. Pretty much all block 1 units are somewhat stat dependent.

Honestly. I’d just recommend not pushing it if you don’t feel a need. It’s no obligation to max meta ops.

I mentioned dps gets multiplied by many things? Well. More raw stat with less ideal positioning can easily get lesser dps by lack of good situational multipliers. So I’d prioritize build planning or varsity. Not min maxing.

It’s neat to have stat comfort, but the highest end is super costy.

Final thoughts

If looking for numbers, you could check the xp / lvl costs. It really increases by multiples. Cuora is my only op at Max lvl. And everyone else is 10 + from max I think. Lvl 80 is way costly. E2 40-60 is generally way more worth it than beyond, really. As a defender, Cuora can use/need those stats in stalling. My dps can be spread out though. Blaze & Saria are the other two strong cases for me. As I tend to coordinate offensive skills. And usually my ranged dps can overkill easy with timed combos.

I’d probably go sniperknights if I had to choose, though.

Then Guardknights or just no-block.

Personal observations

I’ve noted that many dmg multiplers are pretty tight. There are many levels where Vanilla or Popukar won’t leak early foes by a tight margin. I do remember noticing multipliers in skill duration and stuff. I tend to study as a hobby. And I didn’t care to truly investigate, but some skill thresholds seem somewhat non-random. Looks like things are cut so individual operators are not too op solo, too.

Strong stun spamming operators have chance procs, which seems fitting, design wise. Because of how they stack.

A large perma-stall set-up isn’t too easy to do.

6 Stars have op-like skills with very generous but steep trade-offs. And generally a good general or cleaning skill. Also good stats, but that’s not the foundation. Just the final touch.

There’s more, but balance doesn’t look aimed at uncoordinated solo ops. Rather the opposite.

I wouldn’t worry too much about max level stats. It’s a nice feature for those who seek some form of perfect. Something to pursue. Not for all to have. It isn’t meant for everyone to reach the ultimate road or hidden boss, figuratively speaking. I think masteries are way more for everyone, in terms of reach.

Tactical gameplay point of view?

Well, if it ain’t randomly clear. I favor varsity. But also coordinated focus in that varsity. Ops that can support each other, switch in & out, etc.

And I think the peak performance being so much better around max level is not statistically random, but not really anything needed to be reached, either. Makes more since to max level those who are called perform in small groups or solo. Like Surtr or Mon3er. Because they may stray solo often. Or most healers.

It’s a strategy question dependent on taste though. If game design permitted, you could max everyone. But I’d reiterate. It isn’t meant for everyone to reach the ultimate end like that. It would remove a real-time strategy element of team building.

Essentially. Suit yourself. That’s what I’m doing right now, not sleeping for a night. Helps me sort out my emotional state. Too much noise from constant contact with others & I sometimes forget myself. Spending some of the calmest times awake actually helps me sleep. If that makes sense.

Night

I’m tired for the first time in weeks. And I ain’t sleeping more than a few hours till next night. But I’m good. One nice thing I noticed young. Is that while adults are indecent enough to be forceful at times. Encyclopedias tend to be polite and say the average height of human males / females. Not standard but average. Even so, probably database-related or something. Not all countries are identical. Thus they are, by some definitions, unequal.

I’d finally say I like your challenge things. However, max levelling ops would go into subjectives. Like those math problems with multiple “solutions”. My solution to those is the same as to rubiks cubes: looking further doesn’t look fun, goodday goodbye. See ya later. Maybe. And that’s how I live, most of the time. That’s all.

It’s great to feel free! Cheers!

3 Likes

This is where it’s at
The game is designed well enough that tight margins make all the difference in certain situations

It’s 10%, which seems like a lot to me, especially in high end content, which is the only reason to use Surtr - not to mention the extra hp and def can potentionally keep her alive longer. That difference only grows with buffs like Saria’s S3, Warfarin’s S2 and Skadi’s S2, all of which are going to see a lot of use in high end content as well.

Ps- Thanks for the stats, quantifying it makes it a lot clearer to see

1 Like

Key word being “seems like”, I did mention that you’re probably still gonna be KOing things anyway at lower levels since Surtr hits that hard. And in regards to buffs if you’re already buffing the OP for more damage then you’re making up for the lack of stats with a buffer already at lower levels, so that just defeats the purpose of maxing them for extra stats

That and 10% really isn’t much of an increase, otherwise that’d be like saying 50 damage to 55 damage is huge. You should also consider that you’ve essentially more than doubled the levels on Surtr for just 10% more damage, going back to my RPG example the returns you gain from investment may not even be worth it and resources could be better spent on someone who might actually need it

I usually give priority to my favourite operators (see Melantha or Indra ).

After that, i think that one should max level first the units who can really make the difference between winning or loosing a stage, be it because they are strong or because they have really useful skills.

This means for example Schwartz, since her S3 is really useful to kill annoying / dangerous enemyes + bosses.

Or Ifrit. Or Saria, since her healing is really useful.

But in the end, all of this is subjective. Players should gives priority to the opertors they like.

My advice, hold on to your lmd and exp.
It seems like you don’t have any pressing needs for it anyway.

When your ops actually start failing because of stats, then you can gradually increase their levels until they hit the benchmark you want.
There’s no point panicking and wasting valuable resources that could have helped level another op.

1 Like

Well. Maybe not much to discuss without further question.

To anyone who'd read. I'd say 10% is a lot.

It’s basically 10% more dps from ops for the same setup, presuming efficiency doesn’t change. And if the dps efficiency does change, that implies a foe died sooner. That’s usually very positive.

However, if a cap is reached without change, such as Exu clearing all valid foes with same skill timing to shot again at same moment, direct dps gain is zero for that period. Even if kill is sooner. Could prevent foe from doing an attack though. Also, Exu shooting for chip dmg after viable foes kinda mitigates further change. (low impact)

Additionally, + levels to Bagpipe can grant more hp max and def. Mountain and Specter gain more regen too.

Lots of discrete compound bonuses possible.

If an enemy dies before the next regular discharge skill shot, even to normal shots. than an earlier skill unleash & effect may hit the next foe.

Great with crit % hits, but also debuff or slow shots. & to hasten multihit mob clearing.

Suzuran S2M1 trying to solo VI-1 challenge seems a good example. Every attack unleashes a hit to up to 3 targets. A target down sooner one shot could mean more delay on approaching targets, or more common fragile on the melee invulnerable guy, if any currently there.

Just saying there are lots of bonuses that multiply slightly on each other with chance variables…

The efficiency caps of enemies can still reach breaking point. (operator defeat or leaks) But both can be subverted in case of fair struggle. Difference should be situationally stronger than 10% if very close possibilities are attempted. A.k.a. Tight spots should be easier or more doable. Some of them. The absolute factors aren’t directly subverted.

Thorns and Blaze have decisive differences at E2 60-80. For dmg vs some armored foes. Haven’t much calculated others beyond set situations. But the difference with Ash S2 is relatively high. It might be enough to solo VI-1.

I’d actually bet Ash S2 & Thorns are generally more important to pinpoint max than Exu S3, because they part defeat foes that suppress their dps, which makes them ineffectual but not useless, solo or not, when not set up for effect. Aka, less useless beyond the moment that was planned for. Exu is more for being built around.

2 Likes

With the Vigilo challenge i came to understand that the level is very important when an operator must operate alone or with a limited team like CC.

And +10 atk is not nothing, why?
because when it pass through armor/res it’s +10 damage per attack is not nothing and how many time your operator attack/heal do during a map clear?
And if a boss survive by 10 hp it’s a loss.

When i try to optmize my use of xp, i give priority to an operator for several reasons:( sometime)

Two main reasons are stats improvement and skill boost.( Surtur S3 activated for example)

Boss killing utility (ATK improvement) (Eija, schwartz, Chen,Surtur)

Muti targetting or aspd increased.(Silverash S3/Skalter S2/Eija S3/(Beehunter is always tempting))
Okay Exusiai +10 atk? she hit 5 times for 25 seconds lol.

Role, Utility or Waifu?
Stalling def, atk, HP:(hold a line)
Mudrock will benefit from Hp( regen with her shield) Def and attack with s2 and 3block.
Specter regen, S1/S2 attack increased, Specter attack all blocked ennemies so it’s x3 (in best situation)

Defender-healer: (Block, heal, attack what’s more? skills)
Gummy/Nearll/Blemshine/Saria gain Atk def and more with their skill wich heal based on their attack

Survavibility HP:
medic don’t improved much but they become more sturdy, even 100 hp can save their lives

As you can see, now i consider that any level up is not a waste but after it’s a matter of priority , for me it will be Mudrock Eija, Surtur, Chen/Chalter, Lapluma Liskarm,Skalter.(It’ already too much)
During the vigilo challenge i used Liskarm S2 instead of S1. Fun yes but she need a lot of def.
The reason why Skalter is not the first priority is due to the team/class restriction during cc/challenge but she improves the others stats a lot +regen.

I think with a max leveled operator if you can’t do it, then you are sure it’s don’t work(not RNG)
And Level-up limit the RNG for auto map.
One last thing, i think that on CMap they increase the stats of the ennemies(slightly maybe), but i always feel the difference, a good example is Patriot on Vi-7, he’s clearly sturdier on CM.

2 Likes

That logic is incredibly flawed, it’s the same way of thinking as “Well I burned part of a forest down but it only burned down the parts I wanted to, so therefore it was a good idea” or “Well what if this building doesn’t collapse when I use X amount of explosives, I should use way more than necessary”. It gets into the idea that because the end result just so happened to work out therefore the means by which you used to get there are justified.

Sure if the boss survives with 10 HP it is a loss, but at what point do you actually need the extra levels to prevent that and how many? What are the damage benchmarks you need to hit so that you get the intended result? Can you account for it in your team composition or strategy without having to invest more resources? Is that extra 10 HP leftover because you aren’t dealing enough damage, or something simply went wrong during the run? There’s a lot of factors to consider when thinking about how best to optimize for an end result. Simply referring to a “What if” scenario without actually going into detail on when that scenario would come into play or how to best prepare for it is meaningless. You don’t go for “what ifs”, you can calculate for a result and plan for it, getting the extra stats simply for the sake of getting them can be incredibly wasteful if the boosts from them don’t actually influence the original result. It’s the same reasoning as “Well Cuora can take a hit or two but what if one of the enemies does a million damage? I should bring Nian and Shining too just to be safe”.

There’s such a thing as being overprepared especially in a game with limited resources, the extra stats might matter in some cases, but unless those cases are actually proven beyond doubt to require those extra stats then assuming you need them is just poor reasoning

3 Likes

Yeah its usually unit positioning and skill timing.

In VI-5 CM Faust waltzed away with a sliver of health every time. I foolishly spent LMD and EXP to level up, but in the end just repositioning my units did the trick.

VI-5 CM

Bena used to be one tile to the right facing left. In my anger at faust I now unnecessarily faced her upwards, but it didn’t thankfully matter.

Waifu over meta with max levelling. That way your favourites will be shown first in line when picking your squad.

5 Likes

I will believe “+10atk” is stupid the day i saw someone with the highest score in cc without a single max leveled operator or a 4 star run without max leveled operators(or showcase video).
Or the day i will have all my operators at max leveled, for now i have zero operator at their highest level.
I won’t encourage wasting so many ressources to max leveled an operator but a max leveled operator is always more usable.(I’m a t lv 120 now , bored and with more than 50 E2 operators)

I don’t assume anything when i have so many choice of strategy, operators and more.

As i said above level up is not only +10atck it increase lot of parameters def hp and amplified by skills and others factors.

How do you know how hard an enemy hit ,resist or his hp def? HG don’t give us number, but letter A,B S+…
And in general for a veteran all the first map in an event are nonsense because they are low level map.(using a hammer against a snail)

Sanity practice are limited (limited ressources)at CM it’s 3 per attempts , if you like to try to see how is the difficulty by begining with 2 stars and increasing the power of your squad to get the right team, it’s a choice of play.

And as you said there a many factor in the game, debuff aspd , will you need +10 atk or def because your medic is slowed or the corrupted knight attack faster or harder? A “+10atck” CAN(not will) make it faster or safer.

The “+10atk” is for waifu too, you can’t be sure your favorite operator can’t do a thing if she’s not at her best, i saw it during cc0(1?), i choose Liskarm instead of Hoshi, 100 def is the gap between my Liskarm E2 (not at leveled max) and a Hoshi E2 lv 40 and she did not make it. Should i use Hoshi instead of Liskarm? (Others player did the same positionning with Hoshi and have not failed)
Or the vigilo Vi-1CM there is a run with 1 Iris max leveled mine is E2 lv36M3 ( i know it’s more than 10 atk ) and can’ t do the same thing.

1 Like

Gimme until CC6 starts

Fair, but I’ll believe it’s impossible once it’s been proven beyond doubt to be the case. CC’s been getting easier and easier and with E0 Squads capable of Risk 18 Clears it’s not hard to believe that with the right strategy max risk could be possible with a lower level squad, simply saying “well every max risk has max level OPs” isn’t actually a point in your favor. All that means is that’s what everyone used to get max risk, those clears and the possibility of a max risk clear using OPs that are lower leveled are mutually exclusive.

The point of my argument isn’t to say that they aren’t useful, it’s to point out at what point do the resources you use on that OP return less than what you invest in them? If I’m killing the same things with Surtr regardless of whether she’s level 40 or level 90, then I don’t need to invest more resources into her and focus my attention on someone I haven’t raised. If I happen to need the extra stats sure, but until that situation actually comes up I don’t need to.

Except your entire argument is predicated on an assumption, the assumption that having a full max level squad is a requirement for every max risk CC. Or that 4*s need to be max leveled in order to even compete in CC. It’s built on assuming because some specific scenario may happen you therefore need to be overprepared as possible for it instead of even considering the possibility of alternative solutions, and that the only way to do so is by using resources into maxing everything out as much as possible

There are literally datamined numbers for enemy stats online, use the internet

Hell even if it wasn’t, you can literally just calculate this yourself. Attack an enemy or be attacked by them, look at the damage numbers. You have your Operator’s Atk/Def/Res, and the damage number displayed, crunch the numbers and figure out the enemy’s.

Okay you’ve got this shit incredibly backwards here. It’s not my job to prove whether or not X Operator needs Y amount of stats to defeat Z enemy, that’s your job. You’re the one making the argument that those extra stats are needed, the burden of proof is on you

Even if it wasn’t I already pointed out how trying to point to specific scenarios without actually going into detail on when they might occur is futile. You can point towards hypotheticals all you like but unless you actually have something to back them up then that’s all they are

Yeah that’s the point of being a veteran, we have an easier time because we have so many options leveled already. What’s your point?

That’s a totally valid choice of play for someone who wants to spend the time and effort for it. Hell I just saw an E0 Clear of VI-7 earlier today, people will eventually find a way to optimize things to their highest point. Being able to optimize a clear doesn’t mean trying to have as broken of a squad as possible to brute force your way through a map, it’s a test of your knowledge of the game to figure out a solution to an otherwise difficult problem.

That’s a different point from gameplay, which is what this argument is about

How much of that gap is actually relevant and how much of it actually has to do with a flaw in your own strategy? If the same setup for Hoshi isn’t working for Liskarm then adjust the setup to fit Liskarm.

That’s an extremely specific case and is literally a hyper-self-imposed restriction that person put on themselves. It’s far from “required”

LV114

64 E2s

And if you're curious about M3
6*
  • W | S1M3/S2M3/S3M3
  • Skadi | S2M3/S3M3
  • Skadi Alter | S2M3/S3M3
  • Schwarz | S2M3/S3M3
  • Mostima | S2M3/S3M3
  • Ch’en | S2M3
  • Exusiai | S2M3/S3M3
  • Gladiia | S2M3/S3M3
  • Hellagur | S2M3
  • Saria | S1M1/S3M3
  • Ifrit | S2M1
  • Weedy | S3M3
  • Siege | S2M3
  • Angelina | S3M3
  • Phantom | S2M3/S3M3
  • Bapipe | S2M3
  • Ceobe | S2M1
5*
  • Texas | S1M3/S2M3
  • Lappland | S2M3
  • Whisperain | S1M3/S2M3
  • Swire | S2M3
  • Red | S1M3/S2M3
  • Astesia | S2M3
  • Bibeak | S2M3
  • Specter | S2M3
  • Scene | S2M3
  • Elysium | S2M3
  • Grani | S2M3
  • Tequila | S2M1
  • Platinum | S2M3
  • Blue Poison | S1M1
  • Nearl | S1M2
  • Mayer | S1M1/S2M1
  • Nightmare | S2M1
  • Waai Fu | S2M3
  • Chiave | S2M3
4*
  • Ambriel | S2M3
  • Gavial | S2M3
  • ShiraYuki | S2M3
  • Dur-nar | S2M3
  • Podenco | S2M3
  • Click | S2M3
  • Jaye | S1M3/S2M3
  • Rope | S1M3
  • Beanstalk | S1M2
  • Myrtle | S1M3
  • Vigna | S2M3
3 Likes

image
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Or this
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5 Likes

Oh look a max risk clear using a non-maxed out squad, I’d say this argument has gone in my favor :ak_warfarinsmug:

3 Likes