Brave ike or NY Alfonse

I’m a f2p player, still have Lunatic paralogues & chain challenges to farm orbs, but for now, i have a great amount of orbs that i’ve been saving. But honestly, i can’t decide if i should save more orbs til bike & lucina revival ( i don’t have lucina, but i already have dc fodder for ike ) or if i should try get alfonse copies. I have this account since 2018, but i didn’t played that much on her.

Bike is +4 and NY Alfonse is +0

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Brave Ike

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Bike- the great wall of China. Well until there’s a dancer in other team with a reasonably strong red, for example… but that shows his thick skin

B!Ike for sure, especially since you already have 5 copies.

:feh_ikestare:

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Absolutely B!Ike. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m going to digress and say that it is pretty close and it comes down to what you need them for (light supertank vs astra, etc). I also think Brave Ike has gotten a bit more credit than he deserves due to how accessible he is, whereas Alfonse is a seasonal locked unit that is 3 weeks old and not many have him or have used him.

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B!Ike also you already have so many.

Huh? Brave Ike is literally the best tank in the game, how does he get more credit than he deserves? He can do so much more than Alfonse, in any season. And even if he didn’t, he has Ike at +5 and Alfonse at +0.

HAHAHAHAHAHA spoken like a man who hasn’t given Duofonse a chance

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Yes, I use B!Ike for almost everything. 100% recommended.

Do you seriously think Alfonse can tank more things B!Ike?
Out of curiosity I just tested them in the battle simulator. Both +10 with SS, +RES IV, max dragonflowers, no buffs, and typical builds, nothing too fancy but quick riposte on both (configured for enemy attacking first).
Results: Ike 0 losses, Alfonse 20 losses. Ike did have more inconclusive results while Alfonse had more wins, but we are judging tanking capabilities here.

There is nothing in the game that can 1 Round a max investment Ike on initiation (without a precharged special at least), absolutely nothing. This is a fact, not an opinion.

And if you really wanna make him even more indestructible, you can try a close call build with Peony + Lucina + some speed support, and then he can even tank pre-charged AOEs (and I’m not talking ophelia, cause he can easily tank that without any of this)

Ok fine. Now do base kit B!Ike(with refine and a seal but that’s it) vs base kit Duofonse. Also, are you pre-charging Duofonse’s special before each fight? Oh and actually finish out all of those “inconclusive” matchups to see who finally wins out; tanking a hit is great but if you’re gonna put your all of your tanking eggs in the B!Ike basket then then he needs to be able to finish the job. And finally, what 20 units did you match? If its 20 greens then of B!Ike won, if its 20 reds then that would actually mean something.

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My Duo Alfonse really has perfect IVs, -spd +atk. I couldn’t dream better, for this reason there is no reason for me to try merging him. However if yours has a bane you would like to get rid of (either -atk, -def or -res), I would recommend trying to merge +1 but no more.

Getting more copies of B!Ike is great and I think B!Ike is a bit more useful than Alfonse, if you have foddered some very expensive skills (the Duo Alfonse has this advantage than no investment is required), but I think his damage reduction makes merging (especially +def/res) a bit less efficient than on any other units that don’t have damage reduction.

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A tank that can’t ORKO the enemy is a receipt for unwanted troubles. It allows for stuff like WoM, dancers, smokes, etc. to activate and probably cause some death around.

What are the units Ike fails to kill, what are the units that kill Alfonse? Knowing that is key to evaluate which one is better.

BIke with Close Call is not that exciting though. What B did you give him on your tests?

Also, it’s worth mentioning that BIke has almost no PP while DuoAlfonse has a great one. He can go in and kill someone before tanking the rest. BIke can’t do that, which makes him less flexible.

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I don’t consider this relevant in this context, I want to find the most efficient tank under optimal conditions.

He does finish the job just fine, the simulation is irrelevant here, it’s not like they’re fighting 1 on 1 without anyone else on the battlefield… In real case scenarios this has never been a problem for me. But yes, this is an advantage for Alfonse, there are situations where you don’t want to miss a kill because the surviving enemy may get danced and that can be a problem.

I checked and it was actually only 11 distinct units (the simulation list has each unit 3 times with different builds). The only not green unit he lost to was Karla, although I don’t know which build she used… I have no idea what I changed in the settings because I can’t get him to lose to her again. Anyway, it that simulation Ike won all 3 matches against Karla easily living with a minimum of 35 HP.

I wasn’t, if I do he also doesn’t lose any fight in the simulation. But it is not that linear, you also have to take a least 1 hit or use another CD reduction skill for the first fight. And we are not considering the cases where the enemy also has their special precharged (very common in IP teams), if I run the simulation again then Alfonse has 5 losses even if he always starts with a precharged special. Ike remains at 0 losses.
This would probably change for both of them if I manually edited the list to include more dangerous enemies with PRECHARGED AOE. But in this scenario Ike can still do fine with close call/repel, unless it’s a red with very high attack or L!Alm/L!Celica with swift sparrow 3 and hardy bearing.

I decided to spice up things a bit and ran some more simulations (all of them now with alfonse always having his special pre-charged):

Same simulation as before but with alfonse having special pre-charged: Ike 0 losses | Alfonse 0 losses
With enemies having their special pre-charged: Ike 0 losses | Alfonse 5 losses
With enemies having their special pre-charged and at +10 merges: Ike 0 losses | Alfonse 17 losses
With enemies having their special pre-charged, at +10 merges and with +6 buff to all stats: Ike 1 loss | Alfonse 25 losses

I was curious to what was killing Ike with just a simple buff to all stats, since I doubt any of the units in this predefined simulation is a high attack red unit using an AOE special and… it was W!Tharja with a bladetome, glimmer, death blow 4 and bold fighter (lol)

No you don’t. In player hands his Duo Skill fully charges his special, and from there his spiral keeps it pre-charged. Not charging his special is like not refining urvan; you’ve removed their entire gimmick.
And yes base kits do matter becuase required investment also matters. B!Ike requires heavy investment to fully tank out. D!Alfonse requires no investment at all

Pre-charging enemy specials makes no sense; precharging Alfonse’s does. In player hands Alfonse will always have his special charged. This is not the case for other ememies(nor is it even the case for AI-controlled Alfonse)

That is true, but come on, Ike doesn’t have problems killing in AR… A +10 Ike in AR has around 70 attack, he doesn’t fail to kill anything that can put pressure on the attacker in the first initiation (where getting danced again can be really dangerous). I haven’t checked each unit in the list he failed to kill, but I have played a long time in AR with him and I don’t have this problem, it’s not like people are gonna use H!Myrrh in AR-D… and if they do it’s an easy kill with any other unit :P The typical units in AR I don’t kill in 1 round are stuff like sothis, but he doesn’t put pressure in the the first bait… I can bait him no problems, and he can get danced, it doesn’t matter much.

Why not? I have him QR in B and HP/Res 2 in S, it’s what I currently have on mine. I DO plan to give him close call/repel when I get the fodder! In light season with peony and proper support you can get him to very high speed (someone at GP has a setup like this with consistent 65-70 spd on Ike)

He kinda can with max merges/flowers and the kind of speed you will be giving him for close call support. But it’s a different playstyle, you don’t really need him to do that, you only need him to bait. There is an exception, against an IP team it makes sense to go in first and hit them with pulse smoke (which I don’t have yet), regardless of killing or not.

Fair point, but my point of view here is for someone who wants to, or already has, a fully invest in the unit. Remember the OP already has a +5 B!Ike. Also, using your own argument, you can already use alfonse efficiently without merges, why not going for which gives you a bigger increase in efficiency for your unit?