Can someone explain the Love for Zerkerlot

There are a lot of changes in the tier list that I strongly disagree with (Ruler Jeanne), but one of the things that drives me up the wall is the Love for Zerkerlot.

Every time I tried him before he sucked. He does potato damage and has bad np gen. From what I understand even with Skadi he needs NP2 to perform well.

So why the heck is he Tier 1 With Parvati now? Parvati I understand. She was able to np loop without Skadi, has great stats, and incredible utility. But Zerkerlot has none of those things. Yet he is tier 1 while Valkyrie, who is pretty much a Parvati clone, is tier 2.

Heck, even on the last SR ticket Zerkerlot was the top choice by this site Over Helena before Skadi even arrived. Again Zerkerlot needs double Skadi, a scope, and arguably NP2 to be good. Helena needed none of that. Yet she was below Zerkerlot for the SR ticket recommendation. Something that should mainly be targeted at new players and low luck F2Pers. I would figure that needing a scope, a specific support SSR, AND NP2 should have buried him as an SR recommendation…but he was at the top. At least Fran hits hard!

So why is there this love from the staff here for Zerkerlot? I don’t get it!

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It has a lot to do with Skadi being available for NA.

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i say this with an np5 zerkerlot and am having fun looping with him atm, but i agree with you on all of it.

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Taking a tierlist at face value without reading the explanations is always a bad idea.

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I think a large part of it is the fact you can use similar setups for most CE choices, and in most cases they can be done against any class. I’ve also seen people pull off looping with NP1, it’s just hard considering the low damage output at that level, so you need face cards or particularly low HP enemies.
You definitely don’t need a scope, although kscope and superscope obviously give the easiest time. Only four servants come to mind that absolutely need a kscope or superscope.

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Because I can farm any class with his basaka class without worrying about class advantage.

Go and farm 3 turns with parvati on saber node with 40-50k hp enemies.

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As others have said, it’s about his easy damage combined with broad loop potential assuming one has all the tools and is up against most standard 3x enemy waves.

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Has all the tools right?

And who has all the tools. Tier ratings are for new players and low luck F2Pers. That is My understanding of why NP1 is assumed. Not all of them are going to be able to get a Skadi, a scope, and 2 copies of Zerkerlot. It breaks the normal operation for ranking tiers to assume that.

Further, if you do that for Zerkerlot why not Fran? Fran hits WAY harder and can Skadi loop. And she needs BB rather than NP2. A servant everyone either already has or is certain to get during the next CCC rerun.

Yet, Fran is tier 3, Valk is tier 2, and Zerkerlot is tier 1.

He also takes twice as much damage from everyone meaning if a mob survives he runs the risk of getting gibbed and parv will do more damage against archers than him while being more resistant to damage.

There is no logic I can see to the favoritism Zerkerlot seems to get.

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Valkyrie is basically just a worse Parvati which is why she is T2.

As for Zerkelot being T1 yeah no he doesn’t deserve that spot in any universe. He is far too reliant on having Skadi to back him up to be worth anything. I get the love for him being a BASAKA who can loop but he’s not even one of the best loopers considering unlike the best of the best (Parvati, Atalante, Dantes, Valkyrie etc.) He needs either a superscope or a plugsuit Waver to pull off looping consistently because of his absolutely abysmal np gain basically requiring you to either use fragment of 2004 so he has a np gain buff to use outside of his own on Turn 1 or Turn 2 or the aforementioned plugsuit Waver to give him the charge he needs to loop again.

Honestly it’s kinda baffling they placed Dantes in T2 because he’s a bit too reliant on Skadi yet placed Zerkelot who is far more reliant on her in T1.

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Fran’s requirement for a whole additional Servant with no job other than to prevent her from concussing herself is kind of an issue, because that slot is otherwise wasted in most cases. Zerkerlot doesn’t have that baggage.

That being said, he isn’t sufficiently able outside of the Skadi system and shouldn’t be T1 if we apply Dantes logic.

Also, I don’t consider tier list discussions to be exclusively for the benefit of new players, but I think it’s important not to ignore their perspective.

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What? It’s obviously because he loops while standing on a stolen fighter jet. :fgo_bbgrin:

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I just feel that is more possible for a great many more players than NP2 Zerkerlot.

Yeah I just feel he should be T2 at best.. If he were to swap places with Valk it would be more understandable to me than the way it is now.

And I saw absolutely no reason why he was recommended over Helena on the SR ticket.

I think both the SR guide and the tier list have no target audience and as a result are flawed for everyone. New players and E luck F2Pers have very different needs from whales and dolphins.

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I agree. Helena has been way more universally helpful to me than my zerkalot even though I lucked into np2. Especially when I failed to summon the ice queen, so at best I’ll expect to see a single loop, the crit w3 using a single skadi and various other looping support (or paracelsus clear w1 then zerkalot loop 2-3.

Helena, on the other hand, enables countless 3T comps that don’t use arash, waver or plugsuit as long as she can power through one of the waves.

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And who is gonna do more dmg against saber and all other classes except archers it sure as hell ain’t parvati.

And 95% of the time most won’t survive plus if they do the guy litterally has 100% crit dmg because of his np insane c star drop rate.

Dantes. Even with berserker class advantage because of his interlude he still outdamages Lance and also has the benefit of being able to loop far easier.
Also your point that Parvati is gonna do less damage against saber and all other classes isn’t kind of moot as yeah sure outside of lancers and zerkers she’s gonna do less but Parvati has the advantage of being able to loop far easier and cheaper than lance ever can.

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Not necessarily.

In the beginning of the game, despite nonexistent pre-NP steroids, NP1 with Waver support (and scope, I lucked out then), was enough to clear a wave and subsequently crit down 1-2 enemies for daily farming, before I got XP/QP comps established. I created stars, and then I deleted the next Wave’s boss or mid-boss or such. Once Merlin came into the picture, this got taken up to 11. The meat of his kit isn’t in his NP specifically, so much as it is his ability to machine gun out stars, then deal disgusting crits with them on the following turn as long as you pull any of his cards.

During last year’s Nero Fest, scope + Merlin + Waver - either of whom I will note were already in use for 5-6 slot comps due to their charge/crit (+stargen in edge cases), and charging value respectively, so I’m already talking about variously optimal strategies on their own terms - with just NP1 was enough for a highly consistent 3~4T and sometimes 5T for Rotation 1. MA gave him the 20 charge, and you could often card down the Naga. MLBscope and/or NP levels and/or grails erased the RNG. Merlin charge and NP +10 ATK brought him to 23,978-31,748, enough to card the 30K Naga on its own. You can see from this analysis here, that while his gen is otherwise atrocious his 1T NP Gen Up is often “good enough” whether you were NP1 non-MLBscope like me or better. Once Waver’s factored into the equation it’s 32,470-39,575, and combined with how he pours out stars on NP critting is a foregone conclusion. On W3, with all of the crit buffs combined he’s doing well enough to Zerkerlot-other-Zerkerlot facecard the both of them. (You’ll also find he was in applicable optimized comps for R2 as well.)

For another (and one that I used as well), Zerkerlot was part of an optimal if RNG-dependent comp last Christmas too - including Salter (although I vastly preferred the 6 slot Gil/Chloe/Mozart/Merlin comp). Medusa, Tomoe, Salter links; I used him for Tomoe. I was able to deal NP-tier crits with him, pre-Skadi, with just NP2 by then.

What you’re underestimating is his crit potential, and the ability for his refund to be just good enough, and exactly how much he melts stuff post-Skadi specifically on their own terms. He’s not just B10 because I adore him, but because “pew pew” into “kaboom” is deceptively both easy to pull off for standard shenanigans, and with Waver or Merlin expands that into high-intensity farming periods as well. In no uncertain terms, he can pull off NP-tier damage with his facecards, which is unbelievably valuable.

And come Skadi…

NP1 neutral attribute, 2K HNS, Waver and 2x Skadi, is belting out 66,563-81,244 W1, with +10% ATK and then another for succeeding Waves.
30 DEF Down and 10 ATK: 86,890-106,088.
60 DEF Down and 20 ATK (W3): 107,218-130,933. (I’m pretty sure I could farm dust in Charlotte with exactly this.)

NP2: 88,584-108,159. (With 10 more ATK before a DEF Down if needed for a chunky mid-boss wherein Skadi’s 30 DEF Down might be used to ensure you get more OK hits to ensure a stabler loop, 95,360-116,440 which is actually really great for exactly that.)
30 DEF/10 ATK: 115,687-141,284.
60 DEF/20 ATK: 142,790-174,410.

NP1 superscope (so just 2x Skadi), neutral attribute: 44,189-54,009.
30 DEF+10 ATK: 61,865-75,613.
60 DEF+20 ATK: 79,541-97,217.
NP2: 58,919-72,012.
30 DEF+10 ATK: 82,487-100,817.
60 DEF+20 ATK: 106,055-129,622.

But these are just numbers set against the outright stability of farming with Zerkerlot alongside 2x Skadi or 2x Skadi + Waver/Para, which for all the fuss about other stuff I think Meliran did an at least acceptable job here for Skadi farming on its own terms.

Basically, if you have all of these tools? You have an omnifarmer. Someone who can, unless the HP values are really just too chunky, farm for you with little fuss, a ton of convenience, and broad guarantee of it being something you can just rinse and repeat. And if you go high enough, you can even use him for CQ shenanigans.

As someone who actually doesn’t and categorically cannot whale either, I don’t consider any of this to be whale-y either. At the highest end, yes - although a lot of the most optimized setups whether we’re talking refund-based Arts farming (which is actually stricter), various 5/6 slot setups for lotteries in the past (for which simply having supports is already dramatically broadening the scope), or so on are by their very nature. I don’t consider it hard to pull off either, even assuming 0 cash put into the game:

  1. We have had three full GSRs so far, during any of which you could pick him at (I only picked him at 1, because like a jerk, I’ve had to chase him, for NP2). If you know enough to plan, and subsequently to know what is a good idea. He’s high on my list for this year’s. This is something open to literally everyone, “E luck F2Pers” or not.
  2. Waver for his part, has had multiple rate-ups and will have several more: Every past and future CBC for a split rate-up, he was on the 1M/4M banner, the DV Selection, past and future Fate/Accel Zero Order runs, Sanzang’s rerun, and for the earliest people was a ‘reroll’ option (not that I rerolled for anyone at all, I just wanted to play). (And to boot, he’s going to be a freebie in 2 years.)
  3. Zerkerlot has had 4 and will have a 5th banner in the future (split sadly), on top of being someone that can appear at any time, which while unreliable is by my standards still not inaccessible.
  4. Unless you don’t look ahead or similar (in which case more power to you, but any gaps in knowledge fall on you), NA has had 2 years to plan around getting Skadi, assuming they have Waver or not. Which, certainly isn’t a guarantee, but from the number of successes I’ve seen (self included), I don’t think is unreasonable; the power of saving - let alone if you actually can put money in - and Clairvoyance is truly that powerful, if you’re focused on getting what you want. Whether it’s utility, cute png’s, or whatever. It’s no panacea, but the strength of that in tandem with others can’t be understated.

Fran is categorically weaker than him within Skadi farm (which if you are interested in slot maximization and/or ease of use, is what you will do alongside various similar ones like Surfdred looping), which I am only mentioning specifically because you mentioned “can Skadi loop.” Yes, she can. No, despite her obscene damage, she is not comparable due to being hamstrung by the self-Stun which requires you to give up damage or methods of charge/gen - can very likely worsen the stability of clearing W2 or W3 - in favor of BB/Florence (another SSR just like Waver is, time-limited welfare). Or both.
Inkaflare has spoken on her inferiority within that strict measurement here, so go read his words there. She is not realistically comparable when she necessitates superscope and is if anything more “high-budget” than he is. She is a remarkable W3 nuke which I do think is worth considering even if you don’t use her for DSS, but I digress.

I’ve not talked about the Tier List in this post for a reason… I kind of don’t care about that. It’s no matter to me personally if they have inconsistencies or such. I’m really responding to

Which I can respond to despite not being a staff member, as someone that’s sincerely gotten extensive usage out of him at every ‘level’ of play (except CQ because haha soloing goes brrrr). Whether it’s as a wave-clearer, double wave-clearer, someone used as the lynchpin of deleting a disgustingly healthy Archer and her pesky Hydra mid-boss in an infamously irritatingly designed lottery, or whatever. Specifically, due to him being that easy to enable (having my own Waver/Merlin in some situations has just been a matter of QoL, you know, with him), and him being that good at “haha Berserker crits go boom,” which go far. And really that’s what this post is about: Explaining why I love him and think he’s worth consideration for you, despite your experience with him being that “he sucks.”

Do you not have access to, say, stuff like Holy Night Supper, Aerial Drive, or Golden Sumo, in lieu of a single scope? If you have Helena and scope but no Merlin/Waver, I suggest playing with Helena/Zerkerlot and borrowing a Merlin or Skadi and seeing just how efficiently he can melt enemies with just his facecards. Even just with HNS + Waver, before subsequently imagining the destruction wrecked were a certain Ice Queen thrown in too.

One final tangent in an already overlong post (which I had trouble making more focused, apologies): In the very end you might, agree or disagree, say “Well that’s not very new player-friendly however,” to which… honestly yeah, I’d agree if we’re talking those with <6 mo. or less under their belt. If I luck into Skadi on my alt it will take several months at minimum to get her alone up to snuff. That’s pretty fair.

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Because Quick is meta, just for that, i’m not saying that the one that put him up there was biased but was probably biased

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Yeah of course dantes but can I get dantes without spending a single quarts nope on the other hand I can get Zerk/parvati to np 2 this year without spending anything.

You mention the Zerkerlot and Helena rec on the SR Ticket, but the write up there clearly says this:

“*If there is one Servant on this list that profits the most from access to Scathach=Skadi, it would be Lancelot. The sheer farming powerhouse team that is double Skadi with Lancelot (NP2-3) is undeniable and a Master looking to increase their convenience may want to snag a copy of him here. Much like Nitocris and Helena, Lancelot’s potential farming capability (If Masters acquire Skadi!) amounts to such a quality of life improvement that we can’t help but give him a top recommendation.

They outright mention that he needs NP2 to unlock most of his farming potential and they also mention “If Masters acquire Skadi”.

Where you have a point is in that on the 4* Tierlist they make the following assumption:

Assumptions: Non-Welfare SR Servants are assumed to be at NP1, 10/10/10 Skills. Welfare SR Servants are assumed to be at NP5, 10/10/10 Skills. Double Servant compositions are considered.

There’s two important things to take from this, one that supports one of your points and another one that goes against another.

  • NP1 10/10/10: You have a point here, if they assume NP1 Lancelot, he shouldn’t be there because like they say on their SR Ticket Guide, his NP1 farming capabilities are fairly limited.

  • Double Servant Compositions are considered: Basically, they are taking Double Skadi formation into a account for some of the placements. There’s no contradiction with their criteria, you can disagree with the criteria of course.

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You kinda answer your own question here:

What is good for Zerk shoudl be good for Parv and Valk.

Well I didn’t have waver when I tried Zerkerlot, but when I used him he failed to clear simple ember waves. Maybe with better support the results would have been better.

My issue isn’t that I think he is terrible but that he isn’t tier 1. Especially if Valk, who is able to loop far more effectively or Fran who can also NP loop while doing extra effective damage across multiple classes are both ranked lower.

Ignoring players who missed those GSRs, the problem here is there is no way they could know they would get skadi, a scope, and/or Waver.

Assuming they have any SQ left for him after Skadi. Split rate ups have really horrible rates and many people were saving for Skadi during Sanzang rerun.

I been playing over 600 days and I still haven’t gotten Martha. Which shows how hard getting a specific SR can be. Having to rely on extereme luck of the summoning pool to np2 him seems a bit much to me.

Well for those who only recently started playing (and need these lists the most) their time to plan is often more limited than that. But even ignoring that I met people here who save over 1000 sq and fail to pull a specific servant. That is months and months of saving for nothing.

Different people can have vastly different experiences. Which is why I think assuming that one player can get all the requirements is asking way too much for NP1. Someone like Tamamo makes sense at that high of level but I don’t see Berserkerlot at it.

Yeah but Valk is a better Skadi looper. So she should be tier 1 with him and Par.

I think that is a very good explanation for why he should be ranked higher than her. Thank you.

And I thank you for taking the time to explain it. Your post was very informative and puts him in a much better light in my eyes though I still think he doesn’t quite rise to the level that he has been put upon.

When I was using Beserkerlot? I only had HNS and no np chargers other than Mash. Now my roster is a lot stronger and I have more CEs. But I still remember it was a struggle to get his NP up and when I did it couldn’t even clear the wave. Which is why the high tier rating on Zerkerlot bothered me. Zerkerlot requires a large set up to use effectively. Putting him at such a high tier is going to have people go for him and be greatly disappointed at his performance.

I greatly appreciate the time AND DETAIL you put into the post. Thank you for it. It did exactly what I asked for and explained why some would value him so highly.

Which is mainly what I see the tierlists and ratings being for mainly. Newer players and those who are F2P but lack good luck. They are the ones who need to plan how and on who to use their SQ and need the rankings to guide them.

Zerkerlot seems to require a huge set up that I don’t think they can realistically expect to achieve. And him being rated and praised so highly will lead them to thinking he will greatly improve their roster on his own.

And the inconsistency of rating two loopers really high and others significantly lower despite their being only a slight difference between them only added to my misgivings.

Yeah which is why I was completely stumped why they give him their highest recommendation while only a mild Recommendation for Helena. If anything it should have been the other way around.

That is indeed part of the reason I am so confused on why he is so highly regarded. If he and Fran were also rank 2 with Valk (or had valk been T1 and Fran T2) I wouldn’t have posted anything or had thought twice about it. But the inconsistency doesn’t make any sense to me.


Anyway a big thank you to @Tetragoner . Your numbers and research were exactly what I was looking for. I still think he is being over-valued given his problems; but, you answered my question in great detail and time. You showed why someone would value him that much perfectly.

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