CC/Miracle dagger offense?

How does the dagger cc miracle build work, in practice, for T21+ AR-O? I can understand the idea behind the broadleaf ones, stacking as many debuffs as possible, but what about ones using non athame prfs? I’d like to be 100% clear on what to expect before committing to a build, as I’ve been considering merging one up.

As well, what units are good for it (barring kronya/matthew)? Should I consider bows? If it helps, this is for astra season.

Moving to Q&A as it’s more multiple questions than a discussion.

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Vantage is good with them. Matthew is probably the best imo, then Sothe with broadleaf. Kronya is a bit different

Saizo is very different

It’s a great build that should carry you with some support, a dagger vantage user is amazing to have

Hmm–so, the reliance is more on the vantage counterkill, with miracle being a backup survivability, if I’m understanding this right?

Also, what kind of team should I have for support? Pulse, debuff, buff, etc?

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Not many units can Miracle consistently in AR-O, getting the first charge is tough and there are lots of threats like AoE mages, Impacts, and guard effects

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Vantage daggers generally have team support involving a Smiter or someone to help snipe HB units, a debuffer/buffer/both, or in Kronya’s case a damager

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Ah, I see–who would be best: Matthew, Kronya, or a more niche pick that may be underrated?

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I think that Matthew works better in light season because of res buffs

Personally I think Kronya would work great in astra season tbh. If you have broadleaf fodder you could go for someone like Sothe too

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This is for astra, so kronya would be ideal, then, hrm. No broadleaf, sadly, so those are off the table. You mentioned saizo–any experience with him, is he worth considering to you, or is it too odd to consider full investment on?

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I don’t have much experience with any dagger personally

@TMFM might help you with Saizo

Saizo isn’t really a vantage type he just sorta stacks his stats through the roof till he’s practically immortal

Ah, I’m working an a repel Echidna, so the onnitanking sort of niche is covered, nevermind on that.

Kronya it is, then–shame I foddered her back then, having even a few copies now would help tons. I don’t believe she’s been rerun, so I suppose I’ll keep an eye out for that. Thank you, though, there’s a good chance I’ll give this a shot!

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She’s been rerun already hasn’t she?

I didn’t think so, but I very well could be wrong.

Gangrel is another good one :cat:

Reaches suprisingly high Atk.

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Weirdly… nobody mentioned Ouch Pouch…

Ouch Pouch Miracle. Every dagger unit can use it, but the highest attack dagger units (I dunno if Gangrel fits here, but Kagero and Sothe definitely do) would be what you’d be looking for with the build. Gets better with pulse support too, so Silvia or Olivia with IP makes it more consistent. Rafiel with IP support would be heavenly, instant miracle is no joke.

Aim to get the miracle as charged as possible and tank the HB units with it or get into vantage range using that miracle if needed. That simple.

If you’re not extremely dead-set on Kronya, I advise you to look at your Kagero and Sothe copies in your barracks and consider them, especially if you’ll be tight on grails for the foreseeable future.

And check this channel called “Luna FE”. He has videos of using Sothe, Kagero, and Matthew (Spy’s Dagger with Heavy Blade, but similar Miracle charging principle)

Study up and git gud, friend.

Also, bow units are a bit less advisable to use for it, they’d only be superior over daggers against flier balls that have declined over the months. If they ever made a return though, they’ll still run into trouble because the flier balls would probably run Ashnard or Smol Minerva with their nullified bow weakness and decent def. If you already have an invested CC archer, it’s probably better to work with that unit.

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The true big brain move is running a Pain+ Restore Vantage healer that can charge Miracle with no support at all :catdance:

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Gangrel, huh? I’ll look into him, actually.

That pain strategy actually does sound pretty good, but I think I’ll stick to daggers.

That’s actually a big help, as “tight on grails” is a bit of an understatement for my current situation. Only having to get a bath!Camilla instead of merging a whole grail unit makes things far easier, and the fodder otherwise isn’t premium. Thank you for mentioning this, you potentially saved me from wasting a lot of grails, here.

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Glad I could help! Also, don’t feel too disheartened about not having all the grails you need if you were thinking of investing into one for AR. Unlike Arena, things at low merges can work for AR in general. In the grand scheme of things, a highly merged Kronya works fairly similarly to a lowly merged Kronya against a team that’s weak to vantage strats.

Of course, that also means that the f2p units also work at low merges too. (My +atk Kagero is at +2+2 with Ouch Pouch Miracle, and she does the job fairly decently)

Happy raiding!