Charm GL = Meta Teardown?

Has anyone else been experimenting with it in GL?

Personally been experimenting with togekiss first, but two others seem pretty good as well. Normally Togekiss is difficult to get sub-1500, a level 20 evolved gets to around 1800+ CP, which is thoroughly outside the range of a GL combatant, even with trading its incapable of getting in, inlike the boarderline walking (or floating?) Cresselia. But for those who posses a wild togetic of low enough levels, or held onto a low level hatched togepi (the third option is getting one from a low level account, either beign sent a gift from them which contain a togepi, or if they hatch low level togepi, they send you it), it seems our fairy egg is quite the power house.

I held onto one, my first togepi actually, level 12 so safely under GL levels, and after I heard about charm, evolved and powered up to sub GL levels, and the results were… frightening, for the other teams. Sableye, medicham, altaria, Lucario (so every fighting type thats not a PJ using Croak really) are simply deleted by charms shear power. The heavy Dark/Fighting/Psychic (former?) meta is beyond easy pickings for togekiss (and really clefable and wigglytuff as well) since they naturally deal with two thirds of it, while essentially supplanting the final third by doing their job better. They similarly resist fighting like psychic, but also are much more threatening to dark types, since unlike psychics who flail near helplessly while taking super effective damage, charm is super effective to the darks while fairy resists their moves. Altaria, as in once queen of the skies, that flying tanky dragon who abuses the power of dragon breath, is similarly helpless to fairy types and charm. Togekiss seems (at least to me in practice) the best of the three, since its faster charge moves, wiggle’s has the bolt/beam coverage down however and it a ghost wall at the cost of a little more damage from punchypokes (who over all seem much less relevant as a weakness because of the aforementioned fairy deletion) and clefable, who trades out togekiss’ weakness to basteodon’s rocks and magnezone’s lighting for neutrality to ground and less fighting resistance while bringing the anti-fairy power of meteor mash.

Shields up togekiss does quite admirably to even the ubertank deoxys defense, capable of deletion via fast moves at the cost of two shields thanks to the double fighting resistance (and the RNG chance of a stat boost or energy farm could be quite nice as well) though this is a very pricy win despite coming away with more than 66% HP.

It seems like the meta, just by the addition of a fairy fast move (though its actually not that broken statwise, its energy rate is quite low, so its much more due to the typing) could single heartedly have restructured GL’s meta, since it coutners 2/3rds of the main triangle before hand, can deal with many of the big other picks like altaria who were often seen as support. (Humorous aside, Steelix, a steel type, actually gets completely walled by Togekiss in its current state, dt/C/EQ)

The steels, ie basteodon and probopass though seems to be staying right where they are, these nigh-indominable walls are what beat the fairies, but also are their best partners. It seems like ground might be the way to go for dealing with them now.

The some of other new moves are also fun, bronzong’s psyshock finally gives it some non-steel teeth damage, and bulldoze to be an anti-steel to jirachi. Elemental punch Hypno is great for those (like me) who missed legacy moves. I feel like niantic’s getting a lot better about giving players what they want but not in a too pander-y kinda way. A few are duds for pvp, RIP mudslap claydol amirite? Raids aside here, feels good for aerodactyl to finally get RT/RS, as somewhat useless as it is for raids due to t-tar and rampardos.

What do you guys think of charm, you think its overpowered or balanced? Personally, i’m loving it, low energy gain but high damage feels great when it doesnt need charge moves, though it makes fairies so bad for shield baiting, which they realy cant do. Regardless, this really made thigns in GL a lot more interesting.

I’ve been using Togetic to take care of Altaria. I got lucky with Hidden Power Ice. Couple that with Dazzling Gleam and Rock Slide and Altaria melts.

Charm feels a lot like the Razor Leaf of Fairy-type moves: terrible energy gain, but it hits like a damn truck made of smaller trucks. I like it, a lot. Also, now that Fairies finally have their long overdue quick move, they function (as you mentioned) as powerful checks to various GL titans: Sableye, Medicham, and Altaria, to name a few. I think this move will do a lot to help balance out the GL and even the playing field in many scenarios.

When I first saw the announcement, I misread “Mud Slap” as “Mud Shot,” and got excited. Immediately went to TM my Claydol, only to realize that I’m bad at reading and it got the bad Ground move. RIP. :rofl:

1 Like

I can’t wait to TM my GL Clefable to Charm. But the guide says that Clef is actually more relevant in Ultra! My boi. Er…girl…pink tubby squinty eyed thing.

Rockslide, I think you mean ancient power?

Also very nice luck with the hidden power.

Looks like the original mascot of pokemon can finally have its place in the sun, beating down giratina

[laughs in hundo Clefable]
If UL will provide an actual use for it I’m there already. I already went through the effort of giving it a second attack and it looks like its CP tops out just under the 2500 cap.

Totally hear you. Have a 98% lucky Clefable at level 20, am thinking it will be a terror to the dragons in the Ultra League when I power it up. Yesterday I looked at Clefable vs. everyone on pvpoke, and it looked grim, losing more often than winning, but today, it looks like they have updated things, and the win rates are up around 80%, in the Giratina neighborhood. Probably a result of their iterations given the new movesets.
EDIT: I was looking at Clefable with no shields against all pokemon with 1 shield. Giving Clefable 1 shield too gives the result of about 210 wins and 80 losses.

I’ve also been using Clefables in gyms, mostly ones caught at high levels with decent or strong IVs and no dust investment. They walled Machamp nicely in the era when gyms were all blisschanlax, but still struggle with Metagross, the current fav gym sweeper. TMing them to Charm will be very nice, but still no help against Metagross. Oh, for a fire or earth charged attack to counter that beastie. Maybe there Togetic shines a bit brighter.

The fairies have their pros and cons on gyms, aside form really gardevoir who is basically just ‘discount togekiss’

-Togekiss’s HP typings and flamethrower can sting metagross with its better bulk
-Clebable’s pure fairy type and meteor mash make it less counterable by generalists leaving it to be solely bested by metagross who it cant touch
-Gardevoir, fast moves dont scratch metagross, and that shadow all might be SE, but with as little damage as it does with fast moves, a SE toge HP + FT might do better

Thats why fairies should always be slotted in before or after a water type or steel, preferably milotic or magnazone, since the steel resistance (though steels and electrics fear an earthquake). Charm actually makes me look very forward to gen 5 female gelicent, since now there can be what…4 big pinks all forming a massive defensive core to play off their weaknesses and resistances (Jelicent doesnt get charm, but the influx of new fairies for gyms plays a part in this).

In PvP, same applies, togekiss’ hard stops the punchie fools, flebable can beat down other fairies with meteor mash, and gardevoir against is just kinda discount togekiss, also having a fighting reistance but not able to battle sableye as easily, and wiggles who takes more damage from the punchies but in exchange can uber wall ghosts. Mawile, not getting charm, at elast looks most interesting sicne it resists charm while having Steel STAB

Not much effort at 10k dust and 25 candy, it’s as cheap as a starter.

My PvP wish list would be to have a Clefable with Charm, Meteor Mash (all possible so far) and Disarming Voice. DV is an under-appreciated attack, DPS right around DG, but much lower energy cost at 45 vs. 70. It’s the fairy version of Magnet Bomb, which is a solid fast low energy attack with decent DPS. Pity that the only pokemon packing it and Charm is Delcatty.

Or, perhaps a fire or ground attack to counter steel. Might want Togekiss for that one, though. Pound through a dragon or fighter with Charm, powering up, and when Metagross or Steelix comes in to counter the fairy, hit them with Flamethrower (and hope their shields are used up).

Clefable was on the old gym defenders tier list ( but did not make the new tier list, which gave far more weight to how defenders handle MM Metagross.

Considering that many players lack MM Metagross, I still rate Fairy-type defenders highly for walling Machamp, dragons and Tyranitar.

Yes, I still use them too, hence the investment. They just got somewhat better with Charm, but didn’t fix the glaring steel weakness.