Chill Discussion

The0blibionknight posted a video yesterday and I wanted to share it.

The guy hits the nail on the head:
It’s not so much as “pvp is killing FEH” but instead, making whatever little daily/weekly/monthly rewards we get compared to other mobile games locked behind a gatcha paywall makes it almost impossible for a newcomer to succeed and keep interested on the game.

Those of us who still play is because either we are longtime fans of the series and feel attached to the characters, or because we have invested so much time and/or money on this game already that we just simply cannot stop playing, meaning we are constantly committing sunk cost fallacy, and probably will keep until the game closes.

I often chose to consciously ignore it myself just to avoid regret but, I can see very clearly how IntSys screwed us even more with FEH Pass. It may have been the right move to keep the game afloat economically, but if a game needs to latch onto their existing fanbase in order to keep on living while also being incapable of enticing new players, can it be considered a good game anymore?

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Without looking at the video and just basing it off the thumbnail alone.

PVP is definitely about Dagr shooting arrows to kill owls.

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Well I did technically post the video in the meme thread, but that obviously wasn’t for the sake of much discussion.

As for myself I haven’t actually watched it either but personally I say yes and no to the title. PvP has always been one of the worst parts of Feh and where most complaints regarding power creep stem from imo. But despite that, whales will absolutely keep the game going, and PvP is what drives most whales. But I know a lot of more casual players don’t like the increased focus on PvP, so they may lose interest and the player base could end up dwindling. Emphasis on could.

I do agree that the amount of important resources tied to PvP modes is annoying and a bit of a problem. Which is why I don’t think people can truly “just ignore it” as some might tell you. Like have a favorite added as a grail unit? Well if you want to build and merge them that means you’ll be playing AR. Want trait fruits? Gotta do those RB then. Etc. Now you can absolutely get away with not aiming for the highest tiers in those modes and still get decent amounts, but it still shows that you do have to play those modes whether you want to or not to really get the most out of Feh and to be able to build your units to their fullest, like many want to do with their favorites.

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Didn’t notice you posted it in the memes thread lol, sorry.

I agree. I think he puts the question in the title mainly for clickbait, since he also explains in the video why he thinks the answer is a “no”.

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I’d say the biggest factor killing FeH is the blatant disregard for balance. the powercreep shilling constantly facing Save tanks and (often time with) DR just make the game a slog more so than fun. This isn’t exclusive to PvP, but does run more rampant there. If a game isn’t very fun, then there is little to entice people to play it.

PVP is often times a cesspool of all things wrong in FeH, hence why it tends to be the target of these kinds of statements, but it’s not the PVP itself, its the tools that IS has released (I.e. the unbalanced level of powercreep) that end up being commonly showcased there.

My problem is that it USED to be fun (and for thje most part I was at least enjoying Abyssal battles, though Medeus was far from fun), and for some dumbass reason I am hopeful I can find it fun again though after the S!Veronica debackle I have given Feh an ultimatum myself, regarding the Bridal units and/or S!Leagjan’s refine), if both do not suit my fancy I will officially wash my hands of FeH permanently (if either one does I will likely play through the end of book 6 at least).

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Not to say I disagree, in fact I agree with everything you pointed out, but I think the focus of his video is more about the analysis of attraction and permanency of newcomers in regards to FEH vs other games, and less of the game mechanics themselves.

But it’s undoubtly true the meta is very unbalanced as of right now.

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Eh no worries. Like I said, I didn’t really put it there with the intention of having a discussion about the topic but I do think it’s an interesting topic worth discussing anyway, so not a big deal.

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They are very much related, the newcomers may enjoy their first taste, but as they dive more into the modes and especially the PvP modes they likely find they aren’t enjoying the game. Unlike the rest of us they aren’t as invested so to them, the question of “Why am I playing?” can only be answered 2 ways: “I’m not anymore”, and “because I’m a masochist”. Therein is the root of the problem.

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I think the most off-putting thing for newcomers would be the Feh Pass, because I remember first playing this game and took quite a while for me to put in money, and the lack of decent demotes. Forget powercreep. If you gave someone an Edelgard a year ago new or old people would have a blast simply because of how OP it was and oddly enough might actually get people to stay more as stupid as it sounds.

The problem is that not everyone could get her due to being a 5* and with playing the game either for the series or just to play a mobile game not being able to reasonable build up and work with favorites hurts. Whether that be due to being a 5* exclusive or a severely outclassed 3-4*.

People can build whoever they like and make it work but for newcomers just having a cool demote that they can build up and make work feels nice. You put in resources that aren’t entirely orbs and you can see the progress you’ve made either as a F2P or not and you feel rewarded because of it. But when every demote and their mother seem to get severely shafted either with skills or stats(Or both…) only to see this shiny 5* come with a prf with competitive stats it’s like… why bother?

Powercreep can get as bad as it can, which is definitely a problem, but if players can’t even get through the front door without extreme luck they’re not even going to be given the chance to experience the shitty powercreep.

That’s just looking at units. I had a whole thing written up on PvP and while SD would absolutely scare off damn near every newcomer regardless of luck/P2W tendencies PvP can slowly be pushed in at anyone’s own rate with the tiers the game has to offer and you’re generally not too punished unless it’s later tier AR. Actually I think they fixed the AR thing but it’ll take significantly longer to hit VoHs than it would Arena tier 21 and that’s actually sad

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Hell I’m a day 1 player and still look forward to a good demote. I’d say that any f2p or lower end spenders probably do, since like you said those are the types of units that are going to be the most realistic to build. But the difference in power between demotes and 5 stars has been very extreme for a long time now.

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It’s so stupid watching a 5* exclusive get 3 effects on a weapon meanwhile poor ol’ demote(Who’s still got shitty skills btw… BUT NOT A 4* GUARD) has a 7 month old seasonal-but-not-seasonal-anymore inheritable weapon that’s decent.

Any good demote is typically seasonal too. New players can’t be expected to spend all their orbs solely on a new seasonal banner just for the chance at a good demote.

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5 stars: Prfs with stuff like extra stats just for existing and great effects, top tier skills and good stat spreads
Demotes: Outdated generic weapons and skills, not full kits, typically only good stats can save them (if even)
Thanks IS…

And yeah the difference between seasonal and normal pool demotes is noticeable too. And very deliberate too, since they know that making the limited time seasonal demotes better will make more people pull…

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Vader typing a dang essay here lol

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It all comes back to a lack of balance. There are no modes that reward newcomers, F2P, or light spenders equally to whales.

Not saying every mode has to be that way, but at least one hell maybe two would be nice. That way everyone could find some level of enjoyment and fulfillment out of the game no matter how they pay play.

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Well… technically there’s the garbage “mode” that is Frontline Phalanx lol. But calling that an actual mode is generous. Kinda crazy to think that’s the only real cooperative mode in this game now that I think about it.

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Instead, AR success is locked to luck, YTutorials and tier lists (for the love of God people, figure it out for yourself.)

AA is locked to a large barracks.

Arena is locked to +10 fully invested units.

Allegiance battles are locked to +10 fully invested recent legendaries.

SD is locked to +10 fully invested meta units.

SDS/R is locked to a large barracks of +10 fully invested meta units and the recent YTutorials (and a bit of strategy, but you can forego strategy for a Yuri/Chrobin combo with a Pathfinder and a save.)

So to solve part of the issue? Add SD restrictions. No duos/harms, no saves, no legendaries, no support lvl 40, etc.

Will it cause havoc for matchmaking servers? Yup. But once dialed in will it draw in people who avoid SD and help ease in the newcomers? Absolutely

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Hell I’m a day 1 player and big spender and even I still look forward to a good demote… but thats the biggest problem, most of them aren’t really that great unless they come with a Prf weapon and even if they do most of the time it’s a terrible weapon, like take Orochi for instance a Panic weapon really, I mean sure it’s okish but I never use it especially when things like Unities are a thing just helping the foe boost in power. The least IS could do for demotes with no Prf is to give at least good/usefully weapon instead of normal pool seasonal weapons that hardly no one ever used while yes their are “some” really good seasonal weapons the mass majority of them aren’t that great for inherenting.

But now for my opinion on the topic at hand, what’s really killing FeH is the BS that IS keeps doing, we started off with 2 remix’s and now it seems like they are only doing 1 at a time now (tho this might just be temporary, it’s still annoying since it just mean other units will have to wait even longer). On top of that not only did they release Duo/Harmonic units (and a game mode that pretty much requires you to have Harmonic’s to score high in) they released Ascended units who are just another cash grab for resources and to make a unit just slightly stronger. Celestial shop is again bs, it’s about $80 usd to buy enough orbs to get a single spark, and while you can technically get Sparks without spending money at all theirs a limit to how manybyou’d be able to get especially if the only thing you are paying for FeH is the FeH Pass since the average orb obtained a month is roughly 300 orb’s with NH banners having 4 tickets that’s 135 orb’s (if going full circles). Then there’s the powercreep that’s just constantly out of hand, nearly every banner powercrept the banner before it at least from how it seems to feel like these days, and while they are “somewhat good” at “solving” some of the bs that comes from this aka in forms of skills like Canto Control etc. it doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a bunch of cash grab.

The only other thing I’d say that’s killing it are the Alt’s, the majority of units who has alts are practically identical just with upgraded stats and a better weapon, I don’t want to get into it again but just look at Corrin and I mean both Male and Female of the 11 alts they have 6 of them are Dragon’s (3 B, 2 C, 1 G), of the 6 Ike’s 5 are Swords, Ephraim 5/6 Lance’s, Hector 3/5 Axe, I could go on. There’s literally no point in having a unit use pretty much only 1 type of weapon, are they known for using Saud weapon type sure, but when it comes to seasonal unit’s they should strive away from that and give them a more unique weapon type that they normally wouldn’t be seen using (tho I’ll give a slight pass for the baby banner’s tho).

Honestly if I could go back to before FeH came out and stop myself from playing I’d 1000% do it

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Same

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I’m pretty sure any big spender of FeH would agree with my final statement, cuz the only thing keeping me here is the money I put into the game

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But like I mentioned, how much would you actually see this stuff if you never played PvP? PvE is typically pretty easy outside of a few exceptions, and most of the notable power creep people have issues with aren’t really a thing in a lot of PvE content. Which is why I feel most of the issues with power creep stem from PvP. Power creep would still exist without PvP ofc, but it would be as much of an annoyance to typical gameplay imo.

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