Chill Discussion

I don’t think Summoner Duel is killing feh.

I disagree with the newcomer argument.
Not only they have plenty plenty more things to do than we did when game was released, but game also went out of its way to help newcomer since then.

The fact that they will struggle in Summoner Duel R / Summoner duel S just makes sense, you shouldn’t expect to climb elo in a PvP game you just started. (and favor battle you can just spam to get the rewards, or if you’re lucky guys like Akariss will give you free win)

I’m a League of Legends player, it takes people years to learn the game and get better.
I can only expect a gacha to be as difficult since you’re missing a lot of units. (however you have plenty of orbs to decide what to start with, at least)

I think what’s killing feh the most is… people speculating about its death.
Just enjoy it, and if you’re unhappy about the game well, leave it. Spreading negativity isn’t gonna help.

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This right here bothers me alot.
People have the delusion that PvP is for everyone and rewards in there should be “accessible for everyone”.
No, PvP is what we call “Late Game” or even “End Game Content”
You’re not supposed to be a guy who played for a month and suddenly do really well in PvP, that’s impossible.
Every reward you get in there you can get by NOT playing PvP, it’s simply a comfort to get those rewards and that’s it.
And also PvP is NOT P2W or P2P, I think most of the people that have a brain know that most of the really broken Units in the game don’t need merges or the best fodder in the game to be broken, so that’s just a empty excuss for whiny players who don’t wanna play meta in a PvP mode.

Btw nothing against you Vic bro, just against that statement which I’ve seen alot up until now.

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But that’s exactly the problem with PvP in a game like Feh. It doesn’t matter if I’m good or “better” than someone else if they whale for all the most broken units in the game. SD is (often) not a contest of skill, its a contest of who has the most broken things.

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I mean true without PvP powercreep wouldn’t be nearly as much of an issue, but it still doesn’t change the fact that they are throwing out powercreep left and right even powercreeping a unit who just came out no more than 2 months previous. What’s the point in releasing a stupid strong Sword Inf unit if literally the next one is going to pretty much do the same exact thing but better

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This is a much bigger problem than it seems, as to a newcomer with very limited resources even investing in a unit no longer becomes an option, as by the time they are done the unit will most certainly be “worthless” (obviously not really, but the perception could very well be they wasted their time and resources, even for the most broken units this is the case, since as time goes on more counters will get released and others will gain more and more access to said counters).

In the end rapid powercreep and selling solutions is a very unhealthy thing for a game to have if you want to grow it (which in turn leaves the only outcome as “killing it”).

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A big part of the issue, at least for me, is that it really sucks wanting to focus on favorites AND do reasonably well in PvP, since you just don’t have enough resources for both unless you spend heavily. Maybe you get lucky and your favorite characters end up being meta for a few months, but most of us are either gonna have to drain our wallets, cut corners on our faves, or settle for B+ PvP results.

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Yah I mean take someone like Fedelgard for example, stupid op when she first came out, hard to counter her without a very specific build on a small amount of units, but now we have multiple units who have came out of box who hard counters her, while also some decent skills that helps counter her aka something like Flow Guard on a f2p unit like Petrine for example.

Is Fedelgard still a powerful unit. Yes.
Is Fedelgard still a Menance to deal with if you don’t come prepared. Ofc.

But she’s fell off since the hard counters started coming out, I rarely run into her myself in AR/Arena unless it’s my own.

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I’d say that grails aren’t, but technically speaking they were just added to the celestial stone shop. But that’s still only 500 grails roughly every six months which is far from enough to properly build a grail unit (in a reasonable amount of time anyway). So I still think we can basically say the only practical way to get grails at a decent rate is through AR.

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And an average of 675 orb’s… and honestly I’d rather have the orbs

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This is also hardly a recent thing for Feh. Earliest example I can think of was Altina as a B!Ike counter which was almost 3 years ago or something. Probably even older examples out there too that I just can’t think of right now.

So on Edelgard specifically, for a new player there are a few things. One they probably won’t have those hard counters to her, outside of maybe choosing B!Eirika as their free CYL5 unit. And second she tends to be more common in lower tiers of PvP modes, aka the ones a newer player would be in at first. Plus at least for arena she’s more likely to be running something like bonfire over a more score optimal special, and imo an Edelgard with bonfire is a lot more troublesome than one with something like GF for example.

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It’s funny cause I agree with a lot of points made in this thread, but I just vehemently disagree with the video that actually spurred the discussion. One of the biggest issues I have is this notion that newcomers can’t succeed in FEH or that there is this unbridgeable gap between the old guard and new players. You’d think that newcomers are completely resource deprived from the video and what some are saying here. Sure, your grail/trait fruit income starts off slower but you now start off with 3000+ easily accessible orbs from PvE content.

You can’t have it both ways; you can’t say that newly released units are gamebreaking and invalidate older units but then say that newcomers who have the means to +10 several of those units are somehow at a loss. And with regards to the video, I almost found it patronizing that they insinuate newcomers are at some crippling disadvantage because of lack of experience and the need to learn or research. While I’m not denying FEH does a crap job at explaining PvP mechanics (especially in terms of Arena scoring), this is a phenomenon you see in almost any game. The irony of this is the video extols PvE games like Genshin, which is actually one of the worst offenders of not explaining in game mechanics in depth.

EDIT: actually, the irony of the video extends even further when you consider it’s the newcomers who are actually truly screwed in games like Genshin, where the resources to improve characters are region and time-locked.

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I wasn’t implying it was just a recent thing, before the “selling a solution” wasn’t as “necessary” as it is becoming. Before it was more along the lines of if you don’t have an invested unit to deal with X here’s Y that is mostly ready to go out of the gate. Now it’s - Here’s Z, a way to combat this ridiculous BS we created in Y to deal with X.

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Oh I know you weren’t implying that, I was just adding to what you said.

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I wasn’t just going off of just new players when I mentioned Fedelgard, I was just saying even for veterans If you don’t come prepared for her she can be hard to deal with regardless of her Special being used just because of how she is.

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Adding to this, the Starter Support Hero Fest is very powerful now. With Plumeria for AR, Dimitri for Arena, H-Catria for RB, and Yuri being so splashable in every mode, it’s easily the best banner to start with to date

New players are far from entirely screwed, but it does depend on how they spend those story Orbs. TBH most are not going to invest wisely

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Next it’s going to be - Here’s Ω, a way to combat Z who was built to combat the ridiculous BS we created in Y dealing with X

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I mean fair. It’s just even worse for newer players because of the stuff I mentioned. But I agree that anyone can have that issue. I know I certainly can find her a pain if I’m not prepared.

Tbh I’d argue the two Morgans from that banner are just as bad if not worse in that regard. They may not be Edelgard levels of busted but they’re still very strong and can actually (randomly) appear in PvE where you may not be prepared. And to a lesser extent some of the normal pool OCs who can randomly appear in stuff that really doesn’t make sense. Why the hell were characters like A!Fjorm and A!Laegjarn appearing in the SS MS the other day IS?

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I mean have you seen Omega? I certainly wouldn’t want to mess with him :feh_lucinasmug:

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Well yah of course the 2 Morgan’s are just as bad, their weapon’s are pretty crazy, but you know a unit is stupid powerful when they can’t even show up in PvE content Well besides Dancers who can’t show up

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Honestly to me the fact that they did this with Edelgard (and Dimitri) from the start sends a clear message that they were not only aware of how broken she was, but deliberately chose to release her that way in spite of that in the name of money. A deliberate choice to ignore actually doing a good job at making a balanced game. With Surtr I’m willing to forgive it more as an honest mistake of them not realizing how bad people would find him at the time (although I’d argue he was never too bad but that’s beside the point) but them knowing from the start says a lot imo.

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