CYL3 Brave Refine Hopes and Dreams

Part of the refine effect is automatically giving him Glimmer

Problem solved

5 Likes

Oh yes they could make him a supportative unit like the Leggendary, and it then could be one of the best supporter in the game

6 Likes

To contribute, I had this idea for B!Alm. It was supposed to be broken as a joke, but let’s be honest, nowadays anything is possible.

(After any refine)
Dracofalchion- 16 Mt, Effective against dragons. Grants Atk +3. If unit is not adjacent to an ally or unit’s HP < 100% at the start of combat, grants Atk/Def/Res/Spd+5 during combat, and also if foe’s HP = 100%, unit attacks twice.

(Refine) If unit’s Atk > foe’s Atk, unit can counter regardless of foe’s range.

Nothing like giving conditional DC and dual phase brave weapon to a unit with high Atk and Atk based true damage :catdance:

12 Likes

The worst part is I can see them doing something like this. The double strike thing mirrors Celica perfectly, and everyone is aware DC is an essential component for Alm if he wants to run his signature skill. But they’d want a condition so it doesn’t seem too broken, so they’d add that attack comparison check first. Meanwhile, no unit with a natural DC weapon will have received a refine by that point.

8 Likes

This can work, alm has an amazing atk stat even without +Atk

He has 57+5 free +X depending on his kit and others

6 Likes

The whole idea was to take his OG refine and just buff it to hell. Double strike in both phases, dependent on the foe’s HP, spectrum stats, Atk+3, and conditional DC in his weapon. This allows him to continue using his Scendscale to annihilate anything and everything. Plus he has the ability to quad if you want him to, since he was workable spd.

4 Likes

If you want Micaiah to be defensive, why not give her the anti-Unity effect like the Plegian weapons? That way she can neutralize enemies that tries to capitalize on her MO.

Alm has the anti-Panic effect and with that, he gets on equal footing when fighting anti-Bonus… right? If Alm negates Panic do his visible buffs return to being buffs and need anti-Bonus to return to neutral or do they become neutral?

2 Likes

If a unit is panicked but negates debuffs, it basically returns them to 0. They’re not buffed nor debuffed.

And adding anti-Unity tech would have to come at the cost of one of the other effects. If she doesn’t have a free debuff, then it’s unlikely to matter. Without the guaranteed follow-up, she’s not going to be offensive enough to capitalized on the debuffs. Anti-Unity sounds nice enough, but I don’t really consider them better for her than getting a wide-ranging debuff or guaranteed follow-ups… Though it’s definitely possible that’s what they lean in to with her refine.

4 Likes

Personally I do prefer anti-Unity to follow-ups. Like, debuff is her thing, right? I’d rather she can’t double and not finish her job than her stat drain being nullified.

With follow-ups, Micaiah will get +6 combat buffs while the enemy gets +6. With the anti-Unity, Micaiah will get the +6 and the enemy gets +0. Unless you believe Micaiah’s double is substantial even without the +6 stats?

Edit: wait, anti-Unity is even better. Micaiah will have +6 and the enemy would have -6 from the visible debuff. Without it even though Micaiah still have her +6 and the -6 still exists, the enemy gets +12 for a +6 net.

2 Likes

I do feel the follow-up is more substantial, though the reasoning is…perhaps not as sound. Consistency. For her to get follow-ups naturally, or worry about tanking, she has to hit Yune’s Whispers, which is the least consistent aspect of her kit. If a foe you need debuffed isn’t next to another foe, or just has higher Res than her, then she’s not slowing them down or weakening their attacks. There’s then nothing to double up where she needs it, and all she’s getting is a bigger discrepancy between defensive stats. At which point, no, making a -6 Res debuff a -12 debuff is nowhere near as valuable as guaranteeing a second attack; the total damage is massively in favor of the follow-up. The guarantee carries more consistent value, because she’s nowhere near fast enough to double without the speed debuff landing.

Counteracting Unity skills is nice, but I don’t think it’s worth putting all her eggs into the debuff basket just to counteract one (1) skill type. While it could be nice to double up on debuffs against foes who don’t have unit, creating an effective 18 point difference (-6 field debuff, +6 combat buff, -6 combat debuff on foe again), that again only becomes significant if her B-skill lands. Otherwise, you’re getting +6 to defenses and -12 to their Res, but only getting one shot to make it count. I could see them doing it, but I’d prefer something more consistent, and something that allows her to change out the B-skill if needed.

Though I guess you could run Speed and Attack Smoke for better consistency in that case, but then you give up on movement shenanigans and Rein skills, which I don’t think it worth it, personally.

3 Likes

Oh never mind, Plegian weapons only doubles the debuff, so it only gives -6 in combat and -6 visible so the +12 from Unity is only neutralized. So yeah it’s only a 6 point difference between follow-up and anti-Unity, not 12 in my edit.

Then again, it’s not like we have Spd Unity skill or anything, so if Yune’s Whisper hits, it’s going to hit hard at 18 point difference (+6 Micaiah buff, -6 field, -6 in combat) unless they use Spd Bond 4 to neuter it to 5 point difference. You’d need 42 effective speed to escape double from her and 47 to double her if you don’t have Bond 4. Not even F!Mareeta can double that if she insists on keeping Flashing Blade 4. Furthermore, a unit that fast is not likely to have enough Res to survive the one shot with potential -12 Res penalty and +6 Atk.

Edit: That’s before considering buffs on Micaiah. With Rally Atk/Spd+ she can have 24 Spd difference as long as she’s not panicked, so you’ll need 48 effective speed to escape her double. And even more Atk yadda yadda. Would also shut down CC/Repel too if she relies on stacking Spd instead of guaranteeing follow-ups. Plus doubling down on Spd debuff means she can’t be stopped by NFU, while guaranteed FU can.

There are definitely ways to stack speed, but those methods exist for…well, everything, lately. Speed stacking is the entire meta, and if you don’t keep up with a good base speed, you get damage reduction. Personally, I don’t think 34 at +10/+10 is workable, even if that doesn’t factor in the possibility of Speed boon.

There are going to be weaknesses to anything. Guaranteed follow-ups are weak to NFU and speed-based damage reduction (Assuming lower speed as well), but are strong against effects that deny follow-ups and any unit faster than them. Stacking speed buffs/debuffs is weak to foes that deny follow-ups and any unit able to keep up with their speed, but are strong against NFU carrying foes and speed-based damage reduction. Neither is necessarily a better pick than the other, I just have a strong preference for guaranteed follow-ups, and feel like it would be more consistent in her particularly case. Which is in part the result of her main function being armor slaying, and armor units tend to be a leading source of follow-up denial.

1 Like

Wait, isn’t guaranteed FU also gets negated by Wary Fighter and Bector’s Maltet too? They don’t ignore FU denial, right? So in that regard guaranteed FU and Spd FU is equal.

Also, guaranteed FU isn’t superior to Spd stacking when it comes to fighting speedy units either. Guaranteed FU only guarantees your double while they can still double back. Spd stacking might not give you double, but at least neither of them double. Guaranteed FU is more like mutual destruction for the side that can land their second hit first (likely the Desperation side, which is not B!Micaiah that keeps her Prf) and Spd stacking is safety prioritization. In this aspect, guaranteed FU and Spd stacking is equal too.

And that still leaves the edge for Spd stacking against NFU and Spd DR, which guaranteed FU can’t combat. That’s before mentioning the stat advantage from the other 3 too.

Edit: Oh unless by guaranteed FU ignoring Wary Fighter you mean that the unit having it are usually slow enough for Micaiah to double naturally after their Wary Fighter negated the guaranteed FU, then yeah I guess that’s an advantage to having two stacks of FU.

So in the end it’s equal when considering the follow-up mechanic. One beats FU denial while the other beats NFU (which is FU-denial-denial, dammit). One is mutually assured destruction while the other is mutual preservation (which might not be desirable if the attacking unit is a WoM beacon). So that only leaves everything outside of the follow-up mechanic, which is the stats that actually determines damage numbers.

1 Like

They do, but even being relatively slow for an offensive unit, she’s going to double something like Bector.

And that’s a good way to think of it. I just feel like, even with the speed stacking, she’ll be too slow to avoid those doubles from the fastest targets anyway, and if they can’t one-shot her in retaliation with DC, then she’s more likely to come out of that matchup with a win. But it is personal preference more than definitely being the better option.

1 Like

She can avoid doubles from F!Mareeta as long as Mareeta doesn’t replace her A with Swift Sparrow or Unity if Micaiah gets the Anti-Unity refine.

Vs. initiating F!Mareeta

  • Anti-Unity Micaiah (Equal Spd vs Useless NFU = Neither double, both survive)
  • GFU Micaiah (GFU vs Spd+NFU = Only Mareeta doubles, Mareeta survives)

Admittedly letting any version of Mareeta initiates against B!Micaiah is stupid, but it’s still something.

Vs. defending Bector

  • GFU Micaiah (GFU+Spd vs WF+QR = Both double, Micaiah survives)
  • Anti-Unity Micaiah (Spd vs WF+QR = Only Bector doubles, Bector survives).

I liked Anti-Unity Micaiah better because it fits her going up against Ike’s whole Unity motifs but still loses (she has Anti-Unity to neutralize Ike’s Unity, but Ike is still naturally faster even with Micaiah’s combat Spd bonus).

My main hope is that none of them are as broken as Hector. His was way too much.

6 Likes

I got a fun idea Eliwood

Base:
Dragon/beast effective
If unit initiates combat, gain +4 atk/spd/def/res during combat and lower special cooldown by -1 per attack (does not stack)
Refine: Dancer allies with a support with unit can move next to unit. At the start of turn if unit is within 2 spaces of a dancer ally unit, unit gains cooldown -1, 20 HP and removes penalties.

6 Likes

Good god please no. That’d turn him into horse Lynja. Maybe if you reverse the global warps to make it that he’s the one warping like Oliver is to his Herons, that’d be better.

I like the Odd Recovery part though. Maybe do away with the Special Spiral and healing part and make the penalty clearance both ways (remove penalties from both units at start of turn). That way you can bait something with beefy Ninian, have Eliwood warp in and kill said enemy, have Ninian dance him, then Eliwood can go off somewhere and Galeforce to return to Ninian. The two ways Odd Recovery would also combat Isolation on either him or Ninian to give them sort of a “till death do us apart” kinda vibe.

Edit: Even better if the Odd Recovery range is 3 spaces considering he’s a cav and Ninian is infantry. Maybe change it so that Eliwood can only warp and cleanse dancer S-support ally so that he’s not warping around 3 beacons.

I hope in the future Ninian gets her refine as Nini’s Grace. Her original light breath buff changes to +4 to all stats for S-support ally at start of the turn, and the refine makes her grant Bonus Doubler to a danced ally like her husband. Would benefit Roy immensely too.

5 Likes

If the support allie is dragon gains also : adeptive dmg and 35 Dr at first unit combat in each phase

TL;DR: Niniwood is canon. If you ship them you win. If not then deal with it.

2 Likes