Damage Question

So you’ll have to excuse the lack of visual aides(play on my phone write on my laptop so no screen shots), but I have a weird damage question specifically with how certain damage does or doesn’t stack. So here’s the scenario: I have only one ST Lancer that’s SR or higher and it’s Lolidusa, for sticky Archers I was considering fielding her and double Skadi, but I’m not sure what CE would be best to field for her(the skadis would both have star bomb CEs). The options would be:

  1. Black Grail. Not MLB but I know the 60% NP buff is significant.

  2. Imaginary Around. Straight Quick bonus, not sure how well this stacks for a potential NPQQ Brave chain.

  3. GudaGuda Poster Girl. This one I toyed with because it’s a universal 60% Attack boost over just NP or just Quick. Also Lolidusa has a significant health stat(over 14k when Fou’d) as well as a dual hard survival option with the one time Guts and Invincible off of Distant Thoughts. Just not sure if straight 60% Attack is better than stacking Quick or what a 60% NP damage bonus looks like.

  4. If despite having no native support it would be better to have a support Merlin boost Karna with Aerial Drive.

(For Stat tracking purposes: Lolidusa - NP2 4/9/4; Karna - NP1 1/10/8)

Ana has poor ATK without strong, simple burst to make up the difference; also, her Arts cards are fine, but the rest of her deck is bad.

Her strengthened NP is really the showcase of her kit, damage-wise.

Poster Girl’s ATK boost is temporary, so your fight needs to be over in 3T if you want to fully maximize it. Also, NP damage boosts are usually preferred since they are less common and will stack multiplicatively with ATK buffs and DEF Down from your support.


Black grail, no competition. Her Quick cards are shite anyway so don’t overly rely on them.

For Karna: I’m not sure I get your question but if you’re asking for the value of AD on top of other Buster buffs I can say this - even when I’ve expected Sumo to do better than AD, calcs end up saying otherwise because two multiplicative buffs on the same CE is really good for the damage formula. I’d still put it up to a damage calculator tho, and obviously AD only applies to his Buster abilities

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The Karna part was asking if Karna with just AD, Hero Creation, and his own buff was better than any of the Lolidusa, double Skadi scenarios.

Potentially yes against Divine enemies and/or with Buster crits, otherwise no because Karna is unfavoured both in NP type and NP level.

On top of that, Dusa will get a Quick down debuff added to her charm at some point in time


So an NP damage buff of the same level as ATK is always better then?

Not always; it’s just that NP damage buffs are a little less common.

Buffs in the same category stack additively; buffs in different categories (like ATK and NP Strength) are multiplicative with each other for a stronger effective boost.

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So specifically mixing her Monstrous Strength(ATK), Skadi’s Primordial Rune(Quick), & Black Grail(NP Up) gives the best overall boost because of multiplicative stacking between the 3 different categories?

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damage is divided into groups, those groups being:
1 - attack up/defense down
2 - color (quick, arts, or buster)
3 - NP, critical damage, powermod (event damage bonuses, vs trait bonuses)
4 - supereffective (NPs that do bonus damage vs traits, like Robin vs poisoned enemies. bonus damage like Jack’s antifemale that applies to all of her cards that turn are powermod)

damage buffs are split into groups and added together, then the groups are multiplied. what that means is, in addition to trying to add up the biggest numbers, you also want to diversify the kind of buffs you’re getting lest you run into diminishing returns. to use medusa as an example, she has an attack buff on her second skill, and a quick resist debuff on her NP and (eventually) first skill. in addition, skadi provides large quick buffs, defense debuffs, and critical buffs. so as you might have gathered what she is missing is the NP buffs, so black grail is probably your best bet among the ones you listed.

in general, black grail is the best damage ce because NP buffs are widely speaking the hardest to come by, it has 2400 attack at max level, and its 60%-80% value is very high. there are always corner cases, but they are rare and specific


Yes, like that. For pure NP damage, Black Grail will have the best effect. The MLB version also caps at 2400 ATK, which makes it even more effective overall as you get more copies.

Not to say that BG is always the way to go, but it’s undeniably effective at helping Servants with damaging NPs hit harder.

Thanks all, that answers a lot and will help substantially in the future.

No mention of Houzouin Inshun… pfff

Ever gone 0 crits on 3 90% chances? This guy has! And regularly! While Gatcha RNG is usually just slightly against me, Combat RNG hates my guts.


Meanwhile I got two double crits from Lip. Two 10%'s and Two 20%'s in a row on different turns.

Yeah, I probably took your luck.


I don’t usually look at questions like this in isolation–CE selection is often more about the how the servant (+team) fits into a fight more than what maxes damage.

I don’t disagree with NP bonus having the most damage benefit overall, but there are many other considerations. For example, Medusa Lily has no NP gain charge/gain skills. It’s possible with 8 hits on her NP that she’d generate a fair amount of charge, and since it’s ST, her other cards could allow her to get to 49%+ on her NP turn. So, to me, I’d much rather give her a 50% charge CE, use one Skadi for a full charge, NP, and then maybe she can NP on a 2nd turn. So unless it’s a single servant wave (more likely battle), I’d probably go with HNS or Golden Sumo (Sumo in particular if she needs to facecard more).

I’m not a fan of Medusa Lily though, her damage at least at low NP levels seems subpar, and her ST NP puts her more into a boss-killer role. Given that I usually need to slog through more waves to get to the boss, DSS with her doesn’t seem all that attractive. But it all depends–I’ve certainly used RiderToki with DSS because he hits like a truck, and between his 50% charge and the Skadi’s, can sometime triple-loop for those quests with just a single servant battle.

Ana’s base NP gain % is low, so that 8-hit Quick NP doesn’t refund well at all. Her card performance is bad aside from her Arts (which are okay), so I wouldn’t expect great generation.

It goes without saying that starting NP is good for just about everyone, even more so when the Servant needs their NP and can’t build gauge easily.


:rofl: I don’t take an approach to luck like that. I take the outlook that if I’m having a hard time luck-wise that means someone else is having an easier time. I’d rather someone is having an easier time somewhere in the world if I’m having a rough one. It’s too depressing to think that everyone should have a shit time just because things are rough for me.

I figured, it was just a joke anyway. Seems like it did what I intended it to do, so there’s that.