Do you prefer mature Lord El-Melloi or young Waver Ascension?

I mean, we know that Zhuge Liang is the heroic spirit, Waver is simply the body he possessed. Like Ishtar - Rin , for example.

So, using both Zhuge and Waver, i found out that i like more Zhuge. He is more serious and mature, both in his voice and in his animations.

What about you? I know that almost everyone like his Waver later ascension, that’s why when you talk about this servant generally the term used is “Waver”, not “Zhuge”.

But still, are there other people like me that like their Zhuge instead of Waver?

If so, what’s your reason? Mine, i’ve already explained.


That’s still Waver, only he’s an adult. I use that ascension skin too btw.


Well, his adult form is like a different person even in personality, and i like that.

I’m not a fan of Waver. A bit too whiny for my likes

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no offence there historians but WHO DFQ is zhuge liang? Im sorry i have know knowledge but i only know waver… also his adult form is more knowledgeable which make him even more suitable vessel for zhuge i guess? but I still refers him as Waver cuz zhuge is kinda bit painful in the tounge…

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This is an issue caused by (y)our western upbringing. Zhuge Liang is a hugely famous strategist from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Chinese literature. In general Chinese literature/history isn’t something that is taught extensively at least in my experience in Europe (which admittedly is only a few countries).

In fact, I believe a not-insignificant portion of the Chinese player base consider his Pseudo-Servant status a massive insult as far as I am aware.


They feel offended over the use of a fictional character’s name ? What.


Oh, did not know that.

Well, there are strange and questionable things made in FGO. This is undeniable.

Take for example our pride, the great artist and scientist Leonardo Da Vinci.

As an italian, i admit that i raised an eyebrow when i saw that here they potraied him as a girly Mona Lisa. And generally his dialogues are cringe-worthy, for an italian at least. To see one of our best reduced to that :sweat_smile:

But it’s a game. No point in getting offended. The worst is yet to come: i am waiting to see how they will ridiculize our greatest poet Dante :stuck_out_tongue:

Because soon or later Dante is bound to come, probably as a caster. We have already Shakespeare afterall


Like Sizzle said, Zhuge Liang is incredibly popular in China because of the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms so of course some Chinese players would be upset that the Zhuge Liang servant actually has nothing to do with Zhuge Liang and is instead entirely replaced with an English character. Many people actually hate pseudo-servants because of how the personality of the human vessel tends to overshadow the personality of the heroic spirit.


Correct me if i’m wrong but i thought he simply has the insight of Zhuge Liang, plus of course skills/NP being a pseudo-servant. His adult personality is the same as when he takes the title of El Melloi II even as a servant, he’s more like Mashu in that sense… both Galahad and Zhuge Liang are in a “dormant” state.

So whether you prefer his form younger or older that’s still Waver in both appereance and personality.


If it Zhuge Liang in Waver/El-Melloi form I can give a like… But for historical Zhuge or romance 3k Zhuge, a huge dislike for them due to their achievement is over aggregate. And some achievements mentioned actually was another strategist achievement. Historically Zhuge Liang is more of Political Genius instead of Military Genius

Rider Zhou Yu when DW?


I believe that most Chinese players are upset because they don’t get to see true Zhuge Liang in action. Not that they dislike Waver whatsoever. Btw since Zhuge Liang died because of overworking himself, perhaps the reason of him refusing to participate personally is because he predicted that masters will field him very frequently given his usefulness, but he just wanted to rest now? ¯_(ツ)_/¯


you do know that the “zhuge liang” we get is literally just lord el-melloi ii/waver, right?

like zhuge liang just gave waver his powers and proceeded to ■■■■ off inside this vessel after that

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Right, I am not very well read into any of the matters concerning the JP/CN’s dislike of certain Servants. All I know is that the Chinese reception of the initial Chinese Servants was very lukewarm, especially with some further lore writing that also missed the mark.

They are much more satisfied by the Chinese Servants introduced during LB3, and the JP writers also took steps to do better in that regards. That’s all I know.

In the same vein, I find Caesar amusing, but that it is Gaius Julius is something I then find disappointing. I may not be Italian, but what he is has very little to do with what I consider to be the history surrounding him. It certainly does not help that I grew up on Asterix and have a completely different picture of him in my mind’s eye. But @MatteoM may have more to say on that.

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Well, @Sizzle , the Caesar we know has been a great conqueror, strategist and also he wrote many important things.
For example, “De Bello Gallico” is a very interesting writing made by him that we italians study in latin courses in High School.

He was a great man. The Caesar in FGO… well, is there another question? :sweat_smile:


I feel like one should keep their expectations low when it comes to the people who made King Arthur into a woman, but there are definitely some servants where it seems like the creators took a few too many liberties.


Is this a kind way to say that they ridiculized some historical figures?


I pray that we get the chad, chiseled chin and muscular arm Caesar one day, perhaps as a Rider since he shouldn’t be a Saber normally. Cleopatra will definitely be happy about it.


I just can’t see him in Zhuge Liang’s light. I’m not a fan of both but he’s really just Waver with enhanced magecraft. The only strategist-like stuff with Lord El-Melloi is his skills. Every other else is just him being a detective. lol.


Now now. I just happened to get my first waver ( on my secondary account… And I would exchange him for my Merlin on my main T.T)
And I did all of his interlude and stuff.

First off, as other said, he is Waver in all of his form. Not only that, but his mind is also the one of waver.
The reason for that is that zhouge Liang was not a warrior or a hero in his life time. He was a strategist, a politician and an inventory (seem like he was the responsible for perfecting the … Man I don’t know how you said it… Automatic crossbow? Chine used it till 1800 for their troops.)
So, he could have not be summoned as a heroic spirit. He is similar to a Phantasm spirit, but unlike those from shinjoku he is actually a real human who lived, so he was able to do the possession( fusion).

To be fair this is very much in line with the character. In his life Zhuge Liang was more of someone who wanted “the work to be done” than someone who wanted to do all by himself.

As for the bad interpretation of some servant…welll yeah… I mean Christopher colombus was made evil for reason? Romolus is a 3 star version of solair? And we’ll Cesare… Yeah at lest we can hope for a 5* rider cool version of him right (#grandridercesare)?
Sure …
Still the one who hurt me the most are Artemis… But anyone who have read even one of my message know that.
We take what we like (Edmond dantes, Medb and cu alter for exemple), and we toss away what we don’t (Artemis… Arturia saber)

Let’s leave that topic :sweat_smile:

I love Greek mithology, and whoever knows even a little bit of Greek mithology should know how i should feel about how DW portraied Artemis in FGO.

Nothing more to say :roll_eyes:

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