Don't agree with the class affinity table? Or what would you change?

Class_Meta_Salem_Update

We all know and are familiar with the 7 standard servant classes and what they do. But slowly over the years we’ve been getting introduced to more classes outside of the originals that have unique quirks not possessed by the standard 7. However with this has also come some weird type matchups that, to me, don’t really make much sense for lore or gameplay reasons.

So if you could alter the affinity table for any class or classes, what would you do?

Although I wouldn’t change much, except the fact that Alter Egos have a 1.5x dmg multiplier to Cavalry classes and Foreigners is part of the AE => Foreigners => Zerker triangle but Foreigners don’t have that 1.5x dmg multiplier for knight classes

Thats it. 1.5x dmg against Knights for Foreigners, but maybe that’s just me.

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The knight and cavalry classes would make more sense if the arrows were reversed tbh. Lancers have range advantage over sabers but a sword and shield formation can protect against archers until they get in melee range. The other one is a bit tricky but I’d still give a better chance to an assassin to sneak up on a mage without getting taken out than a charging rider, or at the very least make casters take double damage from both while doing normal damage to them.

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When I started fgo, alter ego, foreigner, and moon cancer didn’t exist yet. If I started fgo with this table, there’s no way I would have figured out what the table means as it’s super confusing.

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This thread reminded me of this


Also prompts the question of how the devs came up with this table.

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I think the class that is meant to be strong against knights is Saviour, though to be fair it barely makes any sense to introduce it at this point so I’d give that role to foreigner as well.

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Ooohh… Never heard of that class before. :fgo_ereshsmile:
As much as a new class is interesting, implementing this Saviour class in the table might be interesting as well.

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I was trying to memorize Cavalry affinity triangle by remembering how Iskandar made a mincemeat out of Hassans in Zero, but in-game he would have his bacon fried by them :'D

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I will say that one thing hard to grasp at first is why would either Assassins or Casters have an advantage over Riders at least given that the encounters are always depicted as close-up battles. (Thinking of the Hundred Personas vs. Iskandar fight) but I have touched on this lack battle realism before. Assassins and Casters work in roundabout ways not really well illustrated in the FGO battle depictions so a Assassin over Rider ‘advantage’ can still be feasible if we keep that in mind and I presume the same for Casters.

The above is also another reason of why that 0.9 ATK multiplier has no justification for both Assassin and Caster classes (beyond the other unnecessary gameplay problems it creates).

Edit: Just a first thought on the topic.

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It’s an extra class from fate extra. Thinking about it since fate extra is getting a remake it might not be impossible to see it come to fgo during a promotional event. Though I’d rather get MoonCancer Rani

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Oof. Messiah-class servant like Buddha, and Jesus sound OP as heck. But they made Kiara work so…

Seems more likely than a new class too

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I see it like this:
Saber are the top tier in close combat (at least according to Fate) so they beat Lancers up close.
But Lancers are nimble and faster, so they can avoid Archers and catch up to them more easily.
As for the Cavalry classes, Casters can detect Assassins (more easily) even with their Presence Concealment and have the advantage there. Therefore Assassins can sneak up on Riders and get the surprise attack there

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Imagine Jesus coming to fgo as a savior.

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Yea same i just think of it like this

  • Saber > Lancer because blades are better in SUPER close combat
  • Lancer > Archer because spear reaches Archer
  • Archer > Saber because blade too short to reach

Meanwhile

  • Caster > Assassin because of Detect Life spell in DnD, idk
  • Rider > Caster because mount is faster than incantations
  • Assassin > Rider because naruto running at superhuman speeds is faster than your bulky chariot

I also imagine the most devout but easily offended of people seeking to ban this chinese machination of satan spread by 5g tower

But tbh Jesus Saviour is very cool and I like the idea.

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If the official table is confusing, how’s this one?

:fgo_rinlaugh:

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A little anecdote of mine about class advantage

I’m already happy if I manage to use the right Servant for a battle without a need to check on the arrows.
During LB2 for one fight against Sigurd, I didn’t seem to pay attention, even though I was only focused on the game. Anyway, when choosing a Servant I picked Okita Saber… against a Saber. Because somehow my brain thought that’s how it works. And it gets worse! During the battle my only thought was “Why is this so hard? I thought with Okita this should be a breeze” and was honestly surprised about her comparatively low numbers from her NP. Only a few moments after I won the battle it hit me… Sabers deal neutral damage against Saber.

As for what I’d change… Give us the Gunner Class as a counter part to Alter Ego.

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I always think the Cavalry triangle only made sense in Nasuverse context.

Casters usually prioritize making workshops and fortifying them, making it super hard to get tactical advantage over them, especially if they’re playing the waiting game and hole up in their workshop until the last Servant is left alone and beaten up. They are the natural counter to Assassins that rely on recon without having the raw power to fight without tactical advantages.

Assassins with a competent master usually lay low and gather intel of all the servants in the war, and once the battle is in full swing, they’d begin sniping other masters. Riders are especially weak to this due to their high mobility and reliance on short NP bursts due to their lower stats than the Knight classes. Because Riders will more likely move around and do hit and run tactics on other Servants, they would need to either bring their Master with them, or leave them behind in their home base. If the Master is with the Rider, then they’d be prime target for a trap or an ambush. If the Master is left alone, then the Assassin can, well, assassinate.

Riders are statistically the strongest of the Cavalry class, owing to the fact that they are actually a combat personnel by design. However, they’re still an inch short from the Knight classes, so they still need leverage to beat them in straight combat. This is where their NP comes in. While the Knight classes NPs are “big decisive attacks”, Riders have “mounts they can throttle on demand” that focus on doing repeated chip damage (neither Iskandar’s Gordius Wheel nor Medusa’s Bellerophon are decisive attacks. Shinji was just stupid and banked on the idea that Shirou as a Master is too weak to let Saber use her NP.) Owing to this, a Rider’s optimal strategy is hit and run. Hit and run, and a siege. A well prepared Rider can run and resupply, then come back to harass a Caster without allowing the Caster the time to restock or run away, provided they can brute force the hard defenses and disable/sabotage the soft defenses/supply line.

“B-but Iskandar didn’t act like that!”
You might not want to admit it, but the crux of Iskandar and Waver’s tactic is flying around the city to find battles they can crash, and then making a timely retreat when appropriate. I do think that Iskandar’s Ionioi Hetairoi is not a typical Rider tool because it’s a “big decisive attack”, but still Iskandar didn’t pick any fight other than the one where Gil executed him. The one where he beat HF Hassan was a fluke where they reveal their entire 100 bodies for no discernible reason.

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GUNDAM BEEEEEAM!!!
sorry, couldn’t resist :'D
who needs close combat when you can obliterate everything in a 10 mile radius with a sword anyway

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Tbh, I don’t mind since now we have extra class triangles, particularly Moon Cancer - Ruler - Avenger, rounding up with the initial Extra classes (I’m looking at you Jeannu/Jalter)

Now, Alter Ego and Foreigner mix it up a bit, but I agree that giving Foreigners 1.5x against Knight classes would balance it out (even if it were not to make sense lore-wise. I mean, it’s this game’s version of classic elemental advantages/type effectiveness)

Alternatively, I think it would be much better if the Extra classes weren’t so…Extra. By that I mean that perhaps they would have more uses if the Servants we summon (and conversely the enemies we face) are higher in number for all of the Extra classes.
Again, surely, the 7-class thingies from the original Holy Grail War yadda yadda, but it would be a nice workaround from a gameplay perspective…right? :fgo_casgilworry:

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I know that the affinitirs don’akr a lot of sense but i like how they are either way