Dragonite: Outrage Vs DM

Been playing Premier L, various combos of Gary, Swampy, The Champ, Metagross, sprinkling of Mamoswine. Not doing great, not doing terrible, hanging out on level 8 around 2200. Going through them thinking I need Togekiss, which I am walking and won’t be ready until next season, so be it, and a good Dragonite.

To the point, I just scored a 100% Dratini. And here is the interesting discussion. Searched old posts but they are out dated, predate GBL.

Obviously DB and DC. But the second charge move. Outrage is good. Really good, 60 energy for 110 damage. Draco however is insane at 65/150, but with the 2 stage attack debuff.

The easy answer is DM over Outrage if using to close. My wife uses it that way and I have seen it nuke the end of a fight successfully over and over. But here is where the debate in my mind comes in, if you are using Dragonite to lead or as a second, with shields in play, are you ever using outrage anyways? Seems like Outrage holds the same role as a closing nuke, in which case why not use the more extreme version?

Really interested in people’s thoughts. I’m not impatient, I can handle losing in PVP short term, I view it all as long term investments.

Sit on the 100% Dratini for presumably December DM evolution, or not worth it and go with Outrage?

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DM is almost always better than Outrage. If using Dragonite as lead, no point in not spamming DC. You’d switch out DNite anyway after you use the big charge since DM has insane power.

Why not use Hurricane? Dragon breath and dragon claw already do good enough dragon type damage, hurricane is for coverage. No one with togekiss will shield and hurricane does very good neutral damage.

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I vote for hurricane as well, at least you can get togekiss low with that

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I use Outrage.
All three are good 2nd attacks with pros and cons. I like swiftness and in competetive battles, often 2 additional DB for Hurricane or Draco meteor make a difference. That said, I guess it doesn’t matter a lot which one you take.
Twice or so I missed hurricane for Togekiss, but in one of the situations it was shielded anyway. In turn, Outrage does quite some damage to resisting matchups and most likely it is faster then the opponents meteor mash.
A bit it depends of course on your team composition - if the other two are rather soft counters vs Togekiss or only one counters togekiss at all, go for Hurricane. Draco Meteor is for sure fancy against steel types and things as snorlax (for the rest, outrage will mostly do), but then keep in mind that you have something in the back which can counter the rest of opponents team.
Take home: I like outrage and I will keep it, the two other options are also good, but the differences are in the end subtle, mostly (90%) you will use DB and DC anyway.

I was an Outrage faithful and after switching to Dragonclaw, was never happier, it charges faster - which for me anyway, is super important in PVP and damages hard. :dragon:

I’d go with Hurricane, as others said. In terms of coverage, that’s as good as it gets: more than 60% HP gone from Metagross, Togekiss and other threats. DB/DC will anyway be the main attacking tool, and I have never been thinking “oh, damn, I wish my hundo Dnite had Draco Meteor or Outrage instead”.

That said, if my hundo had Draco Meteor for historical reasons (CD was long before GBL), I would definitely keep it and use it instead of Hurricane. But it would not be worth for me waiting for it almost 1/2 year (and it’s not even sure you would have the time window to evolve it).

Of course I run dragon claw AND outrage. DC is prerequisite for rum everything Dragonite does. DC alone is mostly sufficient , so no deal
@DHardrain - this is an argument pro outrage - it does the same amount of dmg to metagross (actually, hurricane does 62 dmg, so maximally 40 percent dmg) but it charges two DB faster. Togekiss only is the main argument pro hurricane.

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TBH, Dragon Claw is going to be what’s used 99% of the time. Only instance where another would be useful is as a closing nuke with shields down (not likely since Dragonite is usually a lead or safe-switch). Hurricane does have a pro in that it helps if you’re locked against Togekiss and have some energy built up (no advantage vs Steel since all its moves are resisted). Very few select edge-cases where either Outrage or DracoMeteor is better so I wouldn’t sweat it.

I have a maxed Togekiss that’s part of my Fight Club with my dragonite - and not once has anyone played a dragonite against my TK!

It is more the other way round - why did you never fought a Dragonite with your TK? That sounds like a bad play - I mean, basically TK is a Dragonite-Counter. Or did I get something wrong?

@captpepperjack - there were quite some matchups I used outrage. Didn’t count of course, but the classic is, I farm energy vs Swampert or a mud slap Rhypi, in comes Metagross or Magnezone, Outrage release is usually never shielded and takes at least 62 HP of Metagross (or even 82 of Magnezone!!). Draco Meteor would be better then, but sometimes I guess could not charge enough for that.

Sorry, I meant to say that I played them together but have so far not battled against anyone using a dragonite - all the other types yes, just not the classic dragon is all.

Ah really? In masters or in premier cup? In ML Dragonite is rare, but in PC Dragonite is all around, so that would be a bit weird

In ML - I haven’t given Premier much of a go so far…My trainer name is KhaleesiSB - so I kinda have to go with my dragons :slight_smile:

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I guess I don’t know that the DPE is that much better for Outrage to justify using it vs say, two Dragon Claw. Draco Meteor does have a noticeably higher DPE so in closing shots I can see it being worth using. Overall though, very marginal increase over just DB+DC and only situationally better than Hurricane (i.e. vs non-steel, non-fairy, when shields are down and no sacrificial-swap).

It would be a nice piece of deception to have that trainer name and have NO dragons on your team. Foe would save Togekiss for the dragon that’s coming, and you end up reducing the battle to his TK vs. your Melmetal, for an easy win (or maybe something that isn’t weak to Flamethrower, like Heatran).

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I fought someone in Ultra, 2400s before the restart, that had a name of UrMetaGross. They had anti-meta picks as predicted.

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Well yea, that one can always say. 2 DC = 118 dmg, OR = 130 dmg (though remember it is 10 energy less), DM = 170 dmg. Same thing - DM is often overkill and some of the damage is wasted.

I LOVE THIS and am promptly doing it now!

i actually use Outrage fairly often, switched to Hurricane because peer pressure lol and i dropped from the 2580s to the 2440s…those 2 extra fast moves needed make a huge difference. switched back to outrage and am slowly climbing back up the low 2500s. depends on style of play i suppose