DSS Looper damage comparisons?

Ok, I’ve been searching for the answers to this for a while now, but I can’t seem to find anything definitive.
We already have a guide for how easy it is to set up each of the best candidates for DSS, but I’m really not finding any hard numbers on the comparable damage thresholds for each set up. I don’t really care too much about how difficult or “expensive” it is to loop a Servant.

So, assuming that a Master has all the necessary CEs and support Servants to set up DSS for any given looper, what is the damage output for each of them? How big of a difference is there for each NP level? And, ultimately, which looper is best for what situations?

I’m especially interested in a comparison between Dantes and Zerkerlot.

So using an NP damage calculator, all assume 1k fou and not grailed nor adding atk from kscope since it varies based on how your doing on limit breaks. Buffs are skadi and their own own buffs only. Assumes NP interlude is done. Taking the average rather then the low or high damage that is done. Also be aware Dantes buff is 1 turn only so this is more of a wave 3 comparison since barring nodes with mini boss 2 waves they should both chew through wave 1 and 2.

Dantes and Zerkalot NP 1
66263 vs 55751

NP 2
82828 vs 69688

NP 3
91111 vs 76657

Np 4
95252 vs 80142

Np 5
99394 vs 83626

Using https://maketakunai.github.io/ for calculator

I think you forgot to account for Lancelot’s ATK buff. He has +30% ATK for the third consecutive NP cast.

You are absolutely correct I totally forgot about that. let me re-run those

NP1
66263 vs 72476

Np2
82828 vs 90595

Np3
91111 vs 99654

Np4
95252 vs 104184

Np5
99394 vs 108714

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The funny thing is that Dantes closes the gap and comes out slightly ahead when their NP levels are both higher. Close enough that it doesn’t matter in terms of damage, but they’re both excellent, and Dantes is admittedly easier to use on funky nodes (even though I hadn’t planned on rolling, much less whaling for him).

With full Skadi buffs and debuffs, Lancelot averages 132k at NP5, while Dantes averages 139k. Obviously adding ATK from CE and MC effects boosts this tremendously.

Damage-wise, Zerkerlot would beat Dantes in most situations especially with the 1.5x berserker damage modifier but the real challenge with Zerkerlot is enabling his looping since his 3rd skill NP gain lasts for 1T while Dantes’ 2nd skill lasts for 3T on top of the passive 3% NP gain per turn.

But as said, just looking at pure damage numbers, better to invest in Zerkerlot.

With Zerkerlot MLB scope, Dantes is very optional as long as you don’t mind using 2004 all the time. As I mentioned, the damage issue leans in Dantes’ favor at higher investment, but it’s close either way.

Without MLB scope, Zerkerlot is frustrating to use.

The reason I don’t care about the resources I need to loop each of them is because I currently have a Superscope, two K-scopes, and Waver. No matter the situation, I can basically force 3 turns of looping, even if I essentially have to bludgeon it into working. :smiley:

Also, my Zerkerlot’s at NP3, while I have NP1 Dantes from the GSSR. From what I’m seeing here, from a damage output point of view, there’s really not much point in me rolling for higher NP levels on Dantes. A couple thousand damage isn’t really gonna make enemies any deader.

To be fair, the only real reason we care about this system is to open up slots for event CEs. Slapping superscopes on everyone was a viable 3T strat before and will still kill things dead, but our precious drop bonuses suffer :frowning:

Definitely, the main issue with Zerkerlot is the severe restrictions to keep him running. Either you’re using superscope + 2004, or normal scope + plugsuit. Depending on his NP level and the mob HP you can still fail to loop some of the tougher nodes.

Dantes is more flexible on both MC and CE usage due to the more stable looping.

Though investment wise, I think it’s still easier to obtain more copies of Zerkerlot than Dantes so damage wise, Zerkerlot should still be higher assuming he’s at least 1 NP level higher than Dantes? Though the increase in damage per NP level does go down the higher you go.

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Even if it’s a situation where I need Waver to loop (hopefully won’t be an issue after Gilfest and skill levels), Zerkerlot + Superscope, Skadi + bonus CE, Support Skadi + bonus CE, Waver + Bonus CE, Bonus Servant 1 (if applicable) + bonus CE, and Bonus Servant 2 + bonus CE still gives me more bonuses than three AoE Servants with Starting NP gauges and Waver.

Yes, Zerkerlot is definitely easier to acquire more copies of. The MLB scope is the hard part for most players, so it comes down to which other resources they have.

Some would probably rather aim for NP2+ Dantes if they don’t already have the MLB scope and the Zerkerlot NP levels, but there isn’t a hugely compelling gameplay reason to go for Dantes if you have or feel that you can acquire those things.

I didn’t think I’d like Dantes because I already had NP5 Zerkerlot and superscope, but he is proving fun and useful despite being mostly redundant. Since I like him, I’ll probably grail and Fou him to increase his strength further outside of DSS as well.

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Well yeah, you’re already set with your DSS. It’s the players who lack a system other than scopes who will feel the difference in drops.

True enough. And a lot of the other loopers are gonna suffer against class disadvantages, as well as lower damage ceilings, I’m sure.

Although, now that I think about it, what kind of numbers does Achilles get for neutral damage?

Relatively low since his buff is also a quick buff 35557 at NP 1 assuming only at 100% charge. The math formula starts to work against him

I’ve been plugsuiting my NP1 Zerkerlot with Waver but managed to pick up NP1 Dantes this event :slight_smile: No exp cards though so it might take a while before I can properly test him. But looking at the damage numbers vs his NP2 version, grailing NP1 Dantes to 100 and max fou-ing him should be enough to get comparable numbers so I’m planning to invest more in Dantes for now. (But definitely not opposed to getting more copies of Zerkerlot since he’s already grailed to 90 and 1000/1000, it’s just his NP1 status hampering his damage.)

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I’m getting average of 59k neutral assuming lvl 90, 3* Fous, NP1, DSS buffs and debuffs (both Blizzards), self buff, NP activation buff, Riding skill.

Did not account for CE ATK or Mystic Code.

Yeowch. Sorry, Achilles. You may be NP3, but you’re not going to be seeing too much use…

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On a side note, Summer Musashi in the Castoria system, if provided an MLB BG, will outdamage any DSS option except for a maxed out lvl 100 NP5 Dantes when she is NP1.

The bigger deal, arguably, is that she can run 6-slot comps and without a plugsuit, but DSS won’t vanish (unless all the support Skadis disappear!). I still plan to grail my Dantes because I like him, but there’s a reason I also have Jarcher, for example.

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The real Skadipocalypse :cry:

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