F!Ashnard

I’m trying to get Ashnard from this HoF.
Haven’t had any luck on A, B and C yet, but I’ve come across both Blue Flame and Ruptured Sky.
Also, after thinking a lot about what his best inheritable sword could be, I think I’ve made my mind on Ninja Katana+, in case I decide to go for a galeforce set.
About his assist, I have him with HC+ for now, still thinking if it’s best to go for a Rally+.
Anyway, today I’m seeking advice about his special. With Gurgurant and a potential Atk/Def Rein 3 on C, and maybe even Wyvern Flight 3/A-D near Trace 3 on B, his opponent’s atk gets really low, about -12 or more during combat, so is still worth it to go for Ruptured Sky? Isn’t it best to go for Blue Flame with his support/flier balls capabilities?

  • Ruptured Sky
  • Blue Flame

0 voters

Any thoughs would help, thanks!

2 Likes

So we’ve got a lot going on here.

Ninja Katana’s doubling effect can help activate something like heavy blade to make sure RS goes off, and while it raises his Spd for wyvern flight, it also lowers his Def, basically cancelling itself out.

I’d stick with Gurgurant since it protects him from arrows, excaliburs, and is a stronger Rein effect. But might as well take katana for shits and giggles since it’ll be “free.”

To activate wyvern flight at it’s full potential, he’ll need 7 Spd more than his target (meaning they need to have sub 20 Spd without phantom), and then 10 more Def than the foe.

Going up against an armored unit, the most likely unit who’ll have less Spd than him, it’ll be a bit of a wash since their Def will likely be high.

Instead of wyvern flight, I’d go for the guaranteed -3 from a trace, specifically Atk/Def trace. Slap on Atk/Def rein so in total, like you said, unconditionally you’re lowering the foes Atk/Def by 12.

Now, if you’re using him for AR, blue flame would be best. However for sheer damage, either bonfire/ignis or DA/DF are going to be much more potent.

I voted for RS without really thinking about it out of sheer reflex, so ignore that.

6 Likes

Thanks!
Well, when comparing Blue Flame to other 3 cooldown specials like Bonfire/Iceberg/Draconic Aura, if the adjacent condition is fulfilled, the damage made (25) would be as if Bonfire/Iceberg checks for 50 Def/Res or as if Draconic Aura checks for 84 attack.
When you put that in perpespective, there’s no way Draconic Aura is an optimal option, except maybe on units with Triangle Adept 3 that focus everything on Atk (Cecilia, F!Lyon, Sophia, etc).
Then, for Ashnard specifically, even when at max investment, his Def doesn’t reach 50 without external support like Drives/Ward Fliers/Blessing in the numbers of 8-10 extra Def.
So, for AR he probably gets those buffs no problem, but for Arena/AA, specially on mixed teams, that might be more difficult.
Suddenly Blue Flame has a lot more value on those circumstances.

Ruptured Sky however, for Ashnard, stands only as a low cooldown special with high SP cost, that normally wouldn’t give him much damage output. So is it still better over Blue Flame only because of being 2 cooldown?

2 Likes

Nope, definitely not. It’s only good against dragons/beasts. Otherwise it’s only for scoring in arena, almost any other special is more useful. Consider a unit like bagel, max investment has 70Atk. RS only adds 14 damage to your attack… And that’s attacking a unit who’s very capable of ohko-ing you on retaliation.

And DA/bonfire/etc. do take into account stat boosts from skills and drives, so it’s much easier to hit that 50 Def or 80+ Atk like you mentioned.

The rein and trace grant him effective stats by lowering the foes, so those are actually locking him out of stronger specials, but mythic boosts can help him hit those crazy numbers. And personally I’d rather use DA or bonfire over blue flame on defense since I wouldn’t have control over his placement or timing for special activations. It’s very easy to draw him away from a group to get hit with 10 points rather than 25.

2 Likes

That’s also true. Blue Flame is very inconsistent on the hands of the AI.
If I end up staying with Blue Flame for the forma, I plan to change it for Bonfire if I ever use him on AR, be it offense or defense. Maybe even Galeforce for offense if I manage to get a good set for him (maybe HB4 + Atk/Def Near Trace 3?), so crossing my fingers :crossed_fingers:

Even still, I cannot help but comeback to the idea that it might be wasteful not to go with Ruptured Sky. Even after all the Atk debuff is done, with how much atk the meta is reaching, it still might be an ok special. So that’s why I’m so indecisive.

2 Likes

Understandable, and you need to take into account how easy/hard it is to get either special normally, and how much your other units would want that special.

Saccing Owain for blue flame isn’t a big deal, saccing either Byleth for RS is. (And in saccing Owain you could prep Ashnard or whoever for unity with the bond 3 too.)

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That’s also very true.
I have a spare copy of both Owain and M!Byleth, but do I really want to sack any of them to Ashnard? That’s unlikely. More so after getting to choose either Blue Flame/Ruptured Sky from the forma. I’m pretty sure even Aether or Galeforce might be decent options on him.

EDIT: it still feels strange to me Blue Flame isn’t in any other unit but Owain. It feels like it should’ve been on vanilla Ike or any dragon like maybe Naga/Nifl.

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I already have a max invested Ashnard so I’m aiming for this meme build where he goes full ballistic with odd tempest, hits twice and retreats.

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I think blue flame was almost a meme special just for Owain since he was all about naming his finishing moves. Just goes to show IS doesn’t follow through on all their ideas.

3 Likes

That’s an awesome set! I’m very jealous of the A/D Near Trace 3. Congrats!
My luck hasn’t been so great, I’m stuck with Bracing Stance 3, Flow Refresh 3 and Atk/Spd Menace :catroll:

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Oh no… thats a screenshot from the unit builder :stuck_out_tongue: That’s what I’ll be aiming for once I finish building Ilyana (She’s amost done!)

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Oh ok… good luck then!
I would’ve also aimed at Ilyana if it weren’t for the fact that I used a forma for W!Nino and got a perfect build. Somehow I don’t regret it because I feel having the speed to afford running Special Fighter on B gives her more bulk overall thanks to faster healing specials.
Even so, it seems the general consensus is that H!Ilyana is the best choice.

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So, yesterday I replaced Blue Flame with Ruptured Sky.
Right now I’m leanning towards Ruptured Sky mainly for the faster specials procs.

Blue Flame is still not out of the picture: I’ve been testing Ruptured Sky on the high chambers of HoF and it seems kinda lackluster compared to Blue Flame, which I tested previously.
In the context of Arena/AA I still truly believe Blue Flame is more optimal for someone like Ashnard.

Any further thoughs would be greatly appreciated!

the thing is, you have to remember ruptured sky is whatever damage of the foe’s atk stat So the very fact that Ashnard inflicts -5 atk (form his weapon) alone, and if you have atk/def rein (which is another 5) and if you have atk/-def rein (which is yet ANOTHER 5…) you see the problem, here, right?

Where as Blue Flame, he can willmore than likely always get doubled so he can pop it off. it has it’s own issues (ie: more damage if adjacent . (Honestly, i’m not really a fan of either of them. but blue flame would be the better option, and that’s the one PM1 suggested).

2 Likes

You can change your vote.

RS is actually the most consistent 2CD if you ask me. Moonbow doesn’t do much against squishy units which can be a disadvantage if you’re after an occasional OHKO. Glimmer can just splat against high def or res units. RS against player-built opponents is nowadays pretty consistently 13-15 damage unless dragon/beast

I do think Ashnard’s atk debuffs can get in its way; I don’t know that it would do so enough to matter because -9 def is already a lot and if Wyvern flight is in full force that’s another 7 dmg in exchange for 1-2 lost on RS

1 Like

I agree with the first paragraph, and I understand what you mean in the 2nd, however I don’t necessarily agree with the latter, because you’re somewhat compensating RS bad sinergy when Atk debuffs are active on the foe with the extra damage gained via Def debuffs.
The oportunity cost here is, for example, using another 2 cooldown special that doesn’t lose power because of Atk debuffs like Glimmer (that also get’s even more damage output thanks to Def debuffs) or a 3 cooldown special like Bonfire or Blue Flame that like Glimmer are not affected by Atk debuffs.
When Wyvern Flight is in full force that’s -7 Atk/Def, not only Def. So if you’re using Atk/Def Rein 4 (optimal C for Ashanard) and Gurgurant that’s - 16 Atk total alone from in-combat debuffs. If also getting visible debuffs from supports (-5 to -7) that’s as much as -5 damage made by RS.
What I mean is, in Ashnard’s case, the better the situation is for him, the worst performance RS gets when compared to other 2 cooldown specials like Glimmer or 3 cooldown specials like Bonfire.

I’m only comparing RS to other 2CDs here. I think there’s a good case to be made for glimmer because -9 def is already a lot and -16 is enormous. Maybe the question is how often you expect to see 50-70 def because that’s the zone where Wyvern flight tends not to work (or at least not very well) and glimmer may end up weaker.

Keep in mind that specials aren’t strictly about how much more damage you can generate but how many KOs that translates into. This difference is actually very relevant in the glimmer vs moonbow debate because last I checked, glimmer generally produces more damage but not in the matchups where special damage matters the most, which is when the opponent’s defensive stat is high. The same is true here with the added point that both dragons and beasts generally have good if not very good def.

You can make a table for yourself if you want, showing what the maximum HP is that Ashnard can one-round through (or one-shot through, depending on what you’re after) for different values of def. Make one table for RS vs beasts/dragons, another for RS vs everything else, and a third for glimmer. Compare those with opponents you plan to throw him up against, and that will give you a pretty good idea of how well RS performs.

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Ashnard update

Today I finally managed to get Atk/Def Rein 3! I’m so happy!
Since a couple days now I’ve been getting nothing but year 1 C-skills and I though for certain I wouldn’t find it, I was almost sure I would have to make with Atk/Spd Menace.

With his build as it is now I don’t have any regrets using a Forma Soul.
The only thing that I would change as it is now, is maybe A/D Near Trace on B since it is so rare and premium. It’s a sidegrade to Wyvern Flight that doesn’t check for visible Spd and grants Canto so that’s really valuable for PP and mixed phase Ashnard.
DC on A is also an option but I’ve got a couple spare manuals with DC, so Sturdy Impact is a solid choice for a PP build with Ninja Katana+, Galeforce and HB3 on seal.

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