Fast TM question

So, I’be completed a dozen raids, even a recent Raikou raid that we won! I’ve gotten precisely ZER0 TMs of any kind. Nearly a month now.

My son, got 2 Fast TMs from one of those same raids.

I’m not speaking to him right now. ;-)

So today I was battling him in the training practice and Lo and Behold, I got a Fast TM - finally!!! I have a list of critters needing TMs - so I would like to ask the gurus here what you recommend.

I can use it on my 2418 CP, Level 26.5 Zen Headbutt/Outrage Snorlax to get a Lick/Outrage Snorlax and move from PVE ATK C & PVE DEF B to PVE ATK B & PVE DEF B- according to Gamepress.

I also have a 2466 CP Level 26.5 Mudslap/Avalanche Mamoswine that I could change to a Powder Snow/Avalanche Mamoswine and move from PVE ATK X and PVE DEF A to PVE ATK A and PVE DEF of B.

I’m guessing that the best thing to do would be change the Mamoswine, but I am curious to see what everyone here thinks…

Thank you,

You’re posting in the Pokemon masters section, not the pogo section. Definitely Mamoswine though, his ice set is the best in the game, is unlikely to be contested anytime soon, and is just one of the most useful things you can have in raids.


OUCH, I am so sorry. I’m on mobile and the screen is small. I hope this it the only one I’ve done that for… Please forgive me- I’ll delete… sorry.

I’ve changed the forum for you. No worries, everyone makes silly, accidental mistakes!


You will most likely get more out of powder show mamoswine. Snorlax is a good gym defender but that’s about it.


Thank you!

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yeah, Lick/Outrage Snorlax is sweet, but then you’ll struggle against Fighting types. And Zen Headbutt isn’t even a good move…

Unless you’re aiming to use Snorlax in PvP, definitely use that TM on Mamoswine instead. Doing so nets you the best Ice attacker in the game. Snorlax is a bulky attacker, but its attack stat is too low to make it a meaningful attacker for gyms and raids.

Mamoswine is far more useful than Snorlax, so use the Fast TM on it.

Joining everyne here: Mamoswine with that double moveset would be an excellent choice. Best ice attacker in the game.

Zen Headbutt/Outrage Snorlax is a good defender to put in gyms. Lick/Outrage would be a much worse defender, while still not being a very good attacker.

Just a note: we don’t really need ice types right now, considering the raid bosses. So if you think of another candidate that would help right now, you might consider it instead.


Unlike many of the pros on here, (and I mean that positively, not negatively or sarcastically) I only have one, or maybe working on a second, of most major mons.

So you are talking exactly my language right now.

I have two TTARS, one is a CP 3258 Bite/Crunch and the other is a CP 2454 Bite/Stone Edge

3282 Dragonite with Dragon Tail/Hurricane
2939 Gyarados with Waterfall/Crunch
2638 Kyogre with Waterfall/Hydro Pump
2602 Machamps with Counter/Close Combat
2526 Flareon with Ember/Heat Wave
2517 Pinser with Bug Bite/Vice Grip
2486 A-Exeggutor with Dragon Tale/Solar Beam
2479 Espeon
2464 Lucky Snorlax
2462 Vaporeon
2450 Jolteon
2441 Ursaring
2360 Aggron
2320 Hariyama


We are heading for two weeks of psychic raid bosses in T5 (the Deoxyses and then Mewtwo), so if your main goal is that, focus on their counters: bug, dark, ghost.

In your list, Pinsir stands out… but you would need a charge TM (maybe several) to get the bug charge move… One could think of that Gyarados and give it bite for a decent dark attacker, but it’s far from the elite… and maybe it would be better as a water attacker. Let’s say it depends on how many water attackers you can get your hands on, especially when the december “super CD” comes. You already have a great Tyranitar. Your second Tyranitar and your Gyarados, with only one of their attacks being dark type, can still help filling your lineup. Their resistances are complementary: Tyranitar fears fighting, but Grarados resists it ; Gyarados fears electric, Tyranitar not so much ; etc.

Now if you are more into T3 raids in solo or with your son (assuming you are both under lvl 30 with in-progress teams for each type), focus on types that counter the ones you see the most. Apparently, we have a handful or raid bosses weak to fighting right now.

Here are my opinion on your list regarding TMing the movesets, fast and charge moves alike (not considering IVs, I am assuming this is the best you’ve got and have no alternatives yet, which makes IVs irrelevant ; I mean, you could also wait for a year until you have a 100% of each but where’s the fun? Depends on your playstyle :wink: )

Priority: change them as soon as you can/need

  • 2486 A-Exeggutor with Dragon Tale/Solar Beam: decent counter with an odd moveset. You could go the dragon route, but I would suggest the grass route, since A-Exeggutor doubly resists water, it would be a great tank. A fast TM will be enough.
  • 2517 Pinsir with Bug Bite/Vice Grip: double fighting moveset would be passable, I suggest double bug, this guy is one of the very best of the type. Get rid of Vice Grip, that move is useless!
  • 2939 Gyarados with Waterfall/Crunch: see above.
  • Roserade: until you have Razor Leaf/Grass Knot

Decent movesets that could see some improvement but are still usable until you have more TMs

  • 2602 Machamps with Counter/Close Combat: when you have enough resources, go for Dynamic Punch. In the meantime, Close Combat will still serve you well.
  • 3282 Dragonite with Dragon Tail/Hurricane: it’s a decent flying attacker and an interesting Machamp counter. But when you have more flying/psychic attackers, consider giving it Outrage making it of the elite dragon attackers.
  • 2320 Hariyama: I don’t know it’s moveset, but this one performs close to Machamp. A Counter/Dynamic Punch Hariyama is better than a Counter/Close Combat Machamp!
  • Groudon: depends on what you need, Ground of Grass, but it doesn’t excel in Grass. See what moveset you already have, don’t burn them all for Solar Beam. Just make sure you don’t keep Fire Blast and that will be good enough.

Don’t change them, they are perfect

  • 2638 Kyogre with Waterfall/Hydro Pump

Don’t waste your resources on them

  • 2526 Flareon with Ember/Heat Wave: Heat Wave is not the best move and your Flareon could see some improvement. However, you might easily get better fire attackers with community days, making Flareon obsolete. Since you have very few TMs (like me, I know what you feel bro :wink: ), I suggest not to use TMs on pokémon that will be replaced. However, if you like Flareon and intend to keep on using it for long, or if you can’t attend community days, then using a charge TM here could be a good idea.
  • 2441 Ursaring: whatever the moveset, it can help, but nah, not very good, not enough to justify using TMs.
  • 2360 Aggron: naaaaah
  • 2462 Vaporeon: see Flareon
  • 2450 Jolteon: see Flareon, although electric attackers are more rare.
  • Metagross: if you have the legacy move Meteor Mash, get Bullet Punch. Otherwise, don’t bother.
  • all the rest.

Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer. Much of what you are telling me is in my long term plans - because I have gone through this site and marked all the TM changes I need to make. My problem is my absolute void of TMs. I have seen one in a month. And that is probably 10+ raids. My last TM didn’t even come from a raid, I think it was a trainer battle - or something unusual like that. I don’t know what pokemon gods I have offended, but I’m DYING for TMs.

A couple of details…

My Hariyamas are as follows

Hariyama 2320 14/10/13 with Counter/Dyn Punch - good!
Hariyama 1585 13/14/11 with Bullet Punch/Heavy Slam
Hariyama 1184 11/14/14 with Bullet Punch/Heavy Slam

I typically leave the BP/HS Hari’s in gyms.

I have three Pinsirs

Pinsir 2517 11/13/14 with Bug Bite/Vice Grip
Pinsir 2038 13/13/14 with Rock Smash/Close Combat - LUCKY!
Pinsir 1589 13/14/15 with Rock Smash/X-Scissor

I have a half dozen Taurus but I have never seen them do anything extraordinary

Taurus 2305 14/15/08 with Tackle/Earthquake +24 weather bonus sunny
Taurus 1829 14/08/15 with Zen Headbutt/Earthquake +24 weather bonus sunny
Taurus 1812 12/11/12 with Zen Headbutt/Horn Attack
Taurus 1676 11/15/12 with Zen Headbutt/Iron Head
Taurus 1458 10/15/14 with Tackle/Earthquake +24 weather bonus sunny
Taurus 1453 13/11/11 with Tackle/Earthquake +24 weather bonus sunny

Looking at my dark, bug, ghost …

I have

Cacturne 2081 11/15/12 Poison Jab/Dark Pulse
Weavile 1921 15/14/14 Feint Attack/Focus Blast
I have several muks - regular and alolan

I have a Scyther 1917 that I haven’t powered up because I’m trying to save eggs to make it a Scizor

I have a Haunter that I’m trying to get to Gengar, but it probably won’t happen by the next two weeks. I only have 36 candies and I’m not seeing any Gastlys right now.

I have a Mismagus 1479 with Hex/Dazzling Gleam and a Banatte with 1284 and Shadow Claw / Dazzling Gleam.

Ghost is a WEAK area for me.

What is so crazy is when I first started, I thought that I had these great Pokémon’s. Not I know so much more about the game and I consider most of my mons useless and the good ones still need fine tuning!

Last thing: You were talking about gameplay. Right now it is usually my son and I (and occasionally my daughter) going to raids (me searching futilely for TM’s, him wanting cool mons) and catching mons in the wild.

We don’t do much PVP and only a little GYM battling when the research calls for it. And we do research,. We are mostly collecting stuff right now.

Thanks again, you have already given me some good ideas.


Make sure you do the team leader battles and cross account battles amongst yourselves (x3) each day. You get stardust, the occasional Sinoh stone and (rarely) TMs too. It’s worth doing.

Thank you, I have been doing 3x my son - and 1x team leader. (It doesn’t “pay out” for all three does it, just one per day - right?).

And you are correct - my last Fast TM came from there. I broke my dry spell by getting one from a battle with one of the trainers. But I haven’t gotten one from a raid in a month and lately I’ve been averaging 2 raids per day. Most of them single person 1, 2 or 3 star raids. But two of them were 5 star raids with a crowd and I got everything imaginable but TM’s.

I really want some TMs. LOL

Yes TMs, especially for charge moves, are quite rare. Raids are a good way to get them and higher tier raids have a higher chance of getting them. With you and your son together, there shouldn’t be a 3* you cant get through, as well as being able to duo a couple 4*s. Plus with dyoxis out the attack form may be something to look for to farm rewards

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