FGO Anniversary Tier List Update Discussion Thread

Hello all, due to how many of these topics have been created recently pertaining to this (and understandably so), this thread has been created specifically for those who want to discuss the latest update to the Gamepress Tier List as to avoid cluttering the forum, as well as to provide a more organized platform for everyone to share their thoughts, comments, concerns, etc. This thread will remain pinned for a good while until it seems things have mostly died down.

As always, please remember to remain respectful of everyone’s opinion and keep discussion from escalating further than need be. If you see anyone making any further separate threads, kindly redirect them here to keep everything organized, or simply flag the thread and we’ll take care of it.

Thanks for your understanding.

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Going to link my existing thread here for those who either are interested in continuing that ongoing discussion or starting a new discussion here.

Will also add a link to this thread to my original topic.

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Thank you for creating a unified thread

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This should help. Thank you! :+1:

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I’ve linked it in another thread already but I’ve tried hobbling together a tierlist based on specific niches, like stalling or soloing, particularly to give Servants that are less efficient but still fun to play a fair shake.
I’ve stuck to SSRs for now to stop it completely blowing out (the document is like… 22 pages as is), and there aren’t many insights beyond what you can find on the GP Servant writeups - it’s just a bit more directed.
Full disclaimer: some Servants (like my beloved Arthur) don’t appear, because they’re not particularly specialised in these niches. This doesn’t mean they’re bad - normally just that they don’t bring anything spicy to the table, being easy to use beatsticks. They can still do fantastic work with the right compositions.
(NB - comments are enabled on the doc to avoid flooding this thread with workshopping and feedback. I’m mostly just curious if this is something people find helpful).

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Yeah there are some placements I put questions at. If I might say…

In general a lot I’d place one tier higher:

Gil dropping down behind some other damage dealers. He might be simple but he’s strong beatstick against many, perfect matchup with Merlin for wave clearing and boss killing alike

Some like Ivan, Achilles and Karna dropping down to 3. All of em amazing well rounded fighters. Ivan and Achilles especially work with skill that give em a lot for offence and defence.

Hijikata and Vlad III. Hijikata needs the right setup and CEs yes, but he’s powerful. And I don’t think he as hard to keep alive as some say, since he doesn’t need to be low hp all the time.
Vlad meanwhile is an absolute unit in arts teams, compensating for some of his biggest failings while keeping him tearing through any foe.


Hassan I’d honestly move up at least 2 tiers. Never really gotten why he was so low. Amazing np gain, star gen, survivability, buster memes… Him being an damage Assassin doesn’t explain enough for me.

Not sure about Sigurd yet, in theory I agree but now that I have him… Giving him an star gather CE and using his first skill does a lot.

Kiara seems like a mis match for the bottom tier. Sure she’s a tad of a master of none, but she just has so much in her kit it’s hard to justify her placement. Team NP+def down, Debuff resist + arts down with a 50% battery, the entire package that is her third skill, being not just useful vs cavalier classes but also rulers, def ignoring np. The list goes on. Not perfect, but bottom tier?


For the 4 stars

Lancelot Berserker being tier 1? Is that just cuz Skadi? I mean I get he’s good, but that seems overhyping him. Especially outside of farming.

While Saber Lancelot getting the boot down in spite of not just his damage, but also his extreme ease to use.

Yagyu booted down too… Sitting EX is not to be slept on. Especially if you stack on attack down while quickly blasting NPs the enemy’s way.

Also would say Herc’s still top tier in my eyes, especially with bond CE. Put him as failsafe ancor in any team, he can finish a fight on his own and survive way longer than any other offence servant.

Don’t want to go on too long but some final ones.
Caster Gil and Chiron, two amazing supports.
Gil especially being a king of shorter arts fights, especially with arts crit servants.
Chiron meanwhile can boost the performance of anyone with great card up and crit. Especially perfect for servants that don’t overly focus one card type or have mismatched decks (aka both archer emiyas)

Pfew. Sorry for the rant.
On a side note, sad to see Moriarty so low. Don’t disagree, just sad (NP interlute when?)

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Having skimmed through your thread, you generally echo my exact sentiments (aside from a few small details). So I’ll refer everyone to this very extensive writeup that would lead to a much more reasonable SSR tier list.

I’ll preface this by repeating that we need a split by AoE/ST/Supports at this point, to allow for a fairer ranking of servants in their respective roles, and to more adequately represent hybrids by rating them seperately for each role they can fill (Nero Bride, Ozymandias and Moriarty come to mind as servants being able to fill multiple roles).

In addition to my thoughts on the SSRs which are mostly covered by Gou’s post, here are my two cents on the SRs that are misplaced as well, imo.

  • Berserker Lancelot: down to T2. The elephant in the room. While he is one of the best choices for Skadi looping both through accessibility and his ability to farm any class of enemies, plus he was already a competent farming servant before Skadi thanks to his ability to nuke a weaker wave and crit down a beefier wave afterwards, I think most people agree that he does not belong into T1, as the tier list should not judge servants only in their absolute best setup and disregard the rest. Outside of Skadi looping, Lancelot is a competent SR but not on the level of the others in this tier, due to his absurd reliance on effective support to shine, and the fact that he fizzles out into uselessness after his 1 or up to 3 burst turns. He’s simply too reliant on specific comps to be useful to deserve the T1, imo, even if his farming utility with the double Skadi system is complete bonkers.
  • Rama: down to tier 4. Rama has a very vanilla-like kit. His one standout ability is his powerful crit burst, but unlike the other two 4* ST sabers in this tier, he can only crit hard. His NP is noodle tier even when he hits his designated niche, he has pitiful damage outside of his burst turn, provides no other utility and needs someone to provide the stars for him. Compare this to Saberlot who is a 100% self-sufficient crit and NP spam machine with similar burst turn damage as Rama, and Yagyu who can both deliver a massive crit burst turn and completely shut down all enemy offense.
  • Valkyrie: down to tier 3. One of the best servants to loop with Skadi, they face several issues that make them lag behind their competition. First, Parvati generally does the same things Valkyrie does, but better (higher wave 3 damage, even stabler looping, doesn’t underperform even outside of a double Skadi team), and second, unlike Parvati and Lancelot, Valkyrie’s usefulness outside of looping is severely hampered. They’re good at surviving, but the damage is pretty poopy and they have a lot of competition who bring more useful assets to the table.
  • Atalante: down to tier 3. Also one of the best Quick loopers, she faces very similar problems as Valkyrie; her usefulness outside of looping is severely limited, as a crit focused AoE Archer Emiya (in tier 2) simply does everything better, and her NP gain is so terrible you basically need to glue a Kscope to her to even see it in most scenarios.
  • Penthesilea: up to tier 2. Her self-sufficiency, team support and damage output are all an absolute sight to behold. Berserkers with batteries are rare, and Penth additionally buffs her teammates as much as herself and massively increases the entire team’s output as a consequence. The best Berserker to bring for simple “press red till dead” comps period. New players without access to Herc’s bond CE would likely have an easier time cruising through the entirety of part 1 with her than any other Berserker and she is great for event farming too whenever these pesky 80k+ HP wave 2 bosses show up.
  • Scathach (Assassin): down to tier 5. Her kit is an incoherent mess coupled with awful generation stats that is only salvaged by her free NP5 and the one good skill she has (her S3). The only reason she gets used at all is because most people simply have no better options, as the AoE Assassin pool as a whole is just trash compared to all other classes. But once we get Gray next year, who outperforms Summer Shishou in literally every single regard, there is no reason to ever use her. She can’t even loop with Skadi, which would have helped her remain in this tier.

There are some others that are somewhat debatable for me (Danzou, Extra Vlad, Summer Nito are too high while Astolfo, Nitocris and Tomoe are too low imo), but these were the most glaring standouts.

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I very much agree that the Servant tiers need some definition by role. Even with the best attempt at internal consistency, we’re going to have something of a mess when they are all in the same pool. Apple and orange comparisons abound.

I haven’t been able to bring myself to go back and finish my SSR list or to start one for the SRs and the Rs because my brain wants to shut down whenever I look at the current tier lists and try to contemplate continuing in the vein of just one tier list for all roles.

It’ll always be somewhat subjective and never perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to explain, for example, why Semiramis is superior to Cleopatra in a farming capacity while acknowledging Cleo’s undeniable advantages elsewhere than it is to compare Cleo directly to MXH.

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I’ll defer to others to make the long write-ups, but I agree largely with what @Inkaflare and @Gou have already stated.

I think the main two problems with the current list is that there are consistency issues which have already been outlined, and the lack of any written explanation makes such decisions particularly head-scratching. I understand such drastic changes to the tier list are a monumental undertaking, but precisely because it’s so monumental all the explanations and writeups should’ve been prepared prior to release of the revisions in my opinion.

For instance, I may not fully agree with some placements in Honako Green’s tier lists (particularly on the SR end), but they’re so fully explained and consistent in evaluation that I can only call them excellent tier lists. He may value certain qualities in his servant skillsets more than I do, but I can respect that.

That said, I also respect the work Gamepress’s staff have put into their articles, particularly their guides and walkthroughs. On the plus side, since it’s still early, the tier lists may be still subject to
thoughtful tweaking!

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I’m definitely late to the party and such, but I definitely agree with everyone saying that there’s a lack of internal consistency.

Like, why is Dantes in Tier 2 of the 5* list when Parvati and Zerkerlot are in Tier 1? If he’s ranked down for being too reliant on Skadi, shouldn’t they be also?

Why is Drake in tier two, with her con as “not that fantastic at dealing single target damage, as she lacks strong self-buffs” and her pros likely being her battery, while Summer Nero, DaVinci, and Lalter are below her?

Why is “Ozymandias’s ability to support his team with two team-wide buffs is both extremely unique and powerful at the same time” enough to merit him being a top tier servant while Nero Bride, who is also a top tier support/dps ranked down because “her versatility is also her downfall, as Nero Bride is neither the best Arts support nor DPS”? If Ozy is worse at DPS than say, Quetz because he can also support, shouldn’t he also be lower?

How is Achilles - a servant with a massive versatility of things he can do well - on the same tier as Mordred and Artoria, who have the exact same battery, and comes with the con of being “rather vanilla”/“her generation stats and her skillset are extremely vanilla and often do not offer her prolonged effectiveness on the battlefield” - the exact thing Achilles solves?

There’s a strange standard applied to some servants which kind of removes a lot of the list’s usefulness, and unless they’re sorted out I really. Can’t say many positive things about it in it’s current state.

(Also, what makes Hokusai an entire tier better than Gilgamesh? Why is Kiara so low? Are we analyzing them with their best supports, or in a vacuum?)

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Like, I don’t understand why herc was moved down a tier since he got a really significant buff with the poison removal comand code and he is just really really broken.

But I think the worst one is definitely saber lily being moved up a tier. Like… why? Even at np 1 salter does more np damage than her, and lily’s np is upgraded and np 5. I would take a worse charisma instead of a worse golden rule any day of the weak, and if the one with charisma is better in every single aspect than the one with worse golden rule that’s not even a question.

Also, zerker lancelot tier 1 wtf. I can understand parvati, but lancelot needs a shit ton of whaling setup.

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While 5-star tiering are more subjective matter because most of them are unique, this is some that I find a bit off, at first glance, on 4-star tier (on servants that have something comparable):

Mostly just adding up to discussions above:

  • Lancelot, his “wide coverage of effectiveness” NP damage, without support are actually NOT (much) better than many other AOE 4-star neutral damage, such as Astolfo, both at NP1… Anyone even with skadi but not doing the loop due to not having a waver or 5 copies of kscopes have too many better alternatives for wiping out wave 2 and 3 for general 3T farming

  • Astolfo, with his own 50% charge and with a borrowed skadi can now freely carry event CEs or a non-MLB black grail, and wipe wave 3 of salem feather farming node at NP1… with triple quick deck he can fully exploit skadi’s buff next turn with the star generated
    (that is, if the tier list change heavily considers skadi’s addition to the game)

  • Rama and Lalter, they does almost the same (1T burst) but lalter is more self sufficient while rama needs to be supported, so lalter works in more team composition, and do more (high AOE damage). Their position needs to be swapped

  • Saber lily and Salter

  • Chiron also should be at least on par with Helena, they’re both excellent universal support… Actually Chiron is still one of the prime critical team support, with star bomb built on his skill, he enables anyone with star gather buff to do on-demand burst turn (even on turn 1)… and his NP equals to party ignore defense/ignore invincibility to 1 target

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To quickly point out something about Chiron, he lacks team NP charge and a wave-clearing NP, both of which help to make Helena so valuable. Also, while Helena’s card buffs are weaker, they strengthen her role as a team-wide supporter and AoE clear.

Chiron isn’t quite on her level for general use with his lack of the all-important charge support, and his higher-than-average star weight makes it very likely that he vacuums up some of the stars intended for someone else. Caster star weight works in their favor when in a supporting capacity especially when paired with Servants who have no or limited gather skills.

How does everyone feel about the assumptions made for each tier?
5*

Assumptions: SSR Servants are assumed to be at NP1, 10/10/10 Skills. Double Servant compositions are considered.

4*

Non-Welfare SR Servants are assumed to be at NP1, 10/10/10 Skills. Welfare SR Servants are assumed to be at NP5, 10/10/10 Skills. Double Servant compositions are considered.

The 1-3* rarities don’t have a listed assumption but based on the 5* and 4* it’s probably like

1 - 3* are assumed to be at NP5, 10/10/10/ Skills. Double Servant composition are considered

Also, how should CE’s be handled within tier lists? Appmedia made a poll asking people if they had a Kaleidoscope and took that into consideration when evaluating certain Servant with NP batteries.

I’m more of a lurker on these forums who just randomly starts posting for an entire day about once a month, so I probably don’t have the same weight as someone like Gou, but I want to make my statement anyway, because why not.

Personally I think that the tier lists’ biggest problem is a lack of target audience. The Skadi buffs moved all DSS servants up, but unless you read the explanations, that’s not clear. From the amount of moderation I do on other sites, I’ve found that if you don’t put something directly in a person’s face, they probably won’t read it.

That means that the tier lists are highly unfriendly for newcomers, who will think that servants like Zerkerlot, Valk, Dantes etc. are really good, but once getting them will feel massively underwhelmed because they can’t use a DSS. On the other hand, veterans probably don’t need the tier lists much, because we all have a good grasp of what styles of play we like, and what we need to get to improve.

Personally, I think that the tier lists should target newcomers, and should be a way to help them understand this game, because god damn does it not do a good job on it’s own.

I personally think that all of these should be updated with two other stipulations:

It is assumed that you have all 1-3* servants, but no other 4* or 5* servants.

It is assumed that you can get any servant in the game from your friends list.

This would mean no DSS, but you could do stuff with single Skadi and Paracelsus.

The only exception to these stipulations is the actual support servants. Obviously these are the best servants in the game, but without any servants to support, they’re worthless. For this reason I would actually suggest a completely separate support tierlist, irrespective of rarity. Have everything from Mozart to Waver on there, including hybrid supports like CasGil and BB. Make it clear to people that yes, Hans and Paracelsus really do outclass many 4* and even some 5* servants when the situation is right.

For this, I think the assumptions should be:

It is assumed that 1-3* servants and welfare 4* servants are NP5 10/10/10.

It is assumed that non-welfare 4* servants and 5* servants are NP5 10/10/10.

It is assumed that you have all DPS servants in the game.

Additionally, this support tier list should heavily account for versatility. If a support is completely broken in one specific team composition, but fairly crap in most others, that should not give it a high rating. It should have a low rating, but a note in its explanation to mention this one team composition.

In general, I think that the tier lists should rate the servant alone, but the explanations should mention broken and outlier combinations, rather than the ratings accounting for those outliers, and the explanations saying that they’re normally not that good.

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I think the assumptions are fine, but also - what does “considered” mean?

Because like, either you ignore just how incredible those compositions are, or you don’t - and while the placing of like, Hokusai appears to use her potential in a double Tamamo/Tamamo-Bride team (“cornerstone to any Arts AoE NP spamming team is downright impressive.”) that doesn’t appear to apply to say, Kiara, where she doesn’t appear to be analyzed in her best teamcomps - because a Kiara with the right team is incredible for CQ’S.

Furthermore, it’s kind of. Impossible to make a tierlist that both acknowledges absolute top compositions and is super beginner firendly, because those two ways of playing the game typically don’t mesh well together - without Skadi Dantes really isn’t great, but with her, he’s a top quick point servant in the game, and in mixing the two what you get is Dantes in Tier 2, despite fulfilling a Tier 1 requirements - both being “among the best at their role” and “access to a powerful specialization for the current state of the game”.

Which is fair if it’s beginner friendly, but it doesn’t reflect what he an do, and if the tierlist IS supposed to be beginner friendly, “Assumptions: SSR Servants are assumed to be at NP1, 10/10/10 Skills. Double Servant compositions are considered.” is not great and makes even more of the choices of the list baffling.

In my mind, when I stack up Servants next to each other, one of my biggest considerations is “what can they do on their own?” Not in terms of soloing, but in terms of self-sufficiency.
To use a topical example, Achilles and Parvati are my personal favourite Quick loopers - even though Dantes is theoretically the top pick and Zerkerlot has the flexibility of the Berserker class. But Achilles brings his own Quick buff, his own NP battery and an NP gain buff - while it was obviously harder, I was successfully looping with him before Skadi even came around, on nodes that made it more manageable. In that way, I consider Achilles to be “better” than Dantes, despite Dantes having a far, far higher ceiling. Same story for Zerkerlot and Parvati, although the difference is less pronounced cause Zerkerlot has some serious crit potential to make up the difference.
Obviously there’s something to be said for both approaches - evaluating a Servant at their best vs. based solely on their own potential. It also depends what I’m doing - Achilles is a natural looper but Dantes had a better class for countering mixed nodes and takes to Merlin support better with his two Buster cards and off-the-hook star generating, and fantastic NP gain even outside DSS. I’m personally more given to look up the Servants I have and their full analysis, and see what I can do with them than any kind of full-on tiering.

While I may not agree exactly with everything there, I get the thought process and the intent.

Briefly, I suggest that tier lists should include beginners but definitely not cater too heavily to them. True beginners won’t really understand the context of even the best explanation; it’s the intermediate players who know just enough to be dangerous in drawing under-informed conclusions.

Also, we really can’t assume the option of borrowing any Servant from friend support. This is only a reasonably consistent condition for the most popular and universal of Servants.

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Wow, I have no idea on how I missed this thread entirely… I guess having slept properly I could finally see some things clearly. I’ll quote myself on what I said on Gou’s post:

I would like to correct some things, first off I regained some of my lost faith on GP’s tier list having used my own and support Skadis more extensively. But I still do not agree with a lot of the placements.
I believe at the very least Hokusai and Gil should exchange tiers and Kiara should be placed around Tier 3 for me to believe this to be a viable tier list.
Also I don’t believe anyone said this before but why are Achilles and Maid Alter so low (yes low Tier 3 is low for how good he is). I think he suits high Tier 3 better, maybe exchange Illya and his place. On the topic of Illya, I will never accept she is better than Sanzang. Maid Alter has some quick party wide utility and a high ST damage, plus a cool down reduction, her placement doesn’t make sense considering the “meta” this tier list seems to be favouring. If anything I would argue a mid Tier3 place for her.
Semiramis and Eresh are low Tier 5?! As much as I love my boy Karna, even I know Eresh outstrips him overall as a servant. Erseh is in my opinion the best AOE lancer we have right now in NA. Karna is a close second but none the less a 2nd. I don’t mean he deserves to be Tier 5 for that, far from it, just that Eresh is better than him. Also Semiramis is the best AOE buster Assassin we have in the game, in no way is Cleo better than her. A battery with a debuff resist down that actually makes sense, NP gain up with class disadvantage negation ( a god given for mixed nodes) and a poison with Buster resist down. In comparison Cleo has IP (yea we all know how RNG based buffs go), Golden rule as good of a skill this is it isn’t a flat battery like Semiramis’, her last skill is only viable if farming with face cards for its crit stars, some survivability while good isn’t viable if you are farming. So all in all Semiramis is better in my opinion for farming at least, not by a lot but still better.
Raikou should go down, she is very viable for farming and some AOE content but considering the state of the game, her viability has gone down a lot. We have too many servants that are better than her to put her that high. Most of what she can farm can also be farmed by lower rarity Zerks like Sparty, Kiyo, Bunyan and Eric. Also to add to that we now have Zerklot in the DSS system to consider. She definitely no longer deserves that Tier 2 spot.

Amakusa has fallen off a lot, but not that much, he is still easy mode for a lot of challenging content, deserves to go up a tier at least. Tamalancer doesn’t deserve her spot, I still hold Shisou is better than her. Also Vald is too high up, he’s not that good, my Penth does more damage than him. He’s too reliant on Tamamo or Waver and requires too much babysitting without his buffs active.
Kiara, THIS, this is injustice plain and simple. I have her at NP1 and she’s still easy mode for so much content it’s laughable. Let’s see, 50% battery with ST arts resist down to single out a single high HP enemy. AOE CHARGE DRAIN WITH DEF DOWN, let me ask you how many servants can do this? Plus it’s on a skill, not an NP. She will get a buff removal on this too, yes AOE BUFF REMOVAL. Her last skill has a bunch of effects with a 3000 HP demerit, the HP demerit is easily countered by her own NP heal. Even if it was not, she has a very high HP, plus she can’t die from this skill. It grants her Invincible, increases NP gain and has a heal up for 1 turn (there are more effects but these are the notable ones). If used properly, she can loop with this skill and is sure to survive for the following turn to make good on that NP gain. Her NP ignores DEF AND INVINCIBILITY, so the only way to survive is to have enough HP. Her damage is low but she can loop for consistent output, her cooldowns are addressed in her RUQs. She’s incredibly versatile, farmer or challenging content clearer, she’s one of the few servants who can do both. So pray tell how, how is she a bottom tier SSR?!

Sorry if it’s a long read, there’s so many servants to address and I just got around to a few of them. There’s still the SR list to consider, which I haven’t yet looked at.

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