So Bow started a couple Death Battle threads and I like the idea but I haven’t seen anymore for a while so I thought I might start another debate between two Servants.
(For simple courtesy this won’t apply to anything Bow might want to do, this is just because I’m curious)

In the right corner we have the Son of the Sun God, the Hero of Charity, KARNA!

Strength: B
Endurance: C
Agility: A
Mana: B
Luck: D

Noble Phantasms:
Kavacha and Kundala
Brahmastra Kundala
Vasavi Shakti

In the left corner we have the Wind of Mesoamerica, the Winged Serpent, QUETZALCOATL!

Strength: B
Endurance: B
Agility: B+
Mana: EX
Luck: A+

Noble Phantasms:
Piedra Del Sol

  • Karna
  • Quetzalcoatl

0 voters


what about fate/grand order dragon boxes?

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Assuming both can go all-out. I feel like Karna is at an immense disadvantage because of Quetz’s authority.

From Type-moon wiki:

Additionally, due to being a God of Good at the apex of goodness, nothing good is able to harm her due to “some king of special skill” The only things that could really harm her would have to be evil. Although this trait appears to only be available when she is at the height of her Divinity, such as when she was summoned by the World to the Babylonia Singularity. In-game, it is represented as a buff called Winged Serpent which nullifies all damage dealt by Servants with a good alignment while significantly reducing the damage dealt by evil and neutral Servants.

Voting Quetz for the above reason. :fgo_gudako:


Yes but remember it requires a temple dedicated to her and while the scenario provides for that it doesn’t mean it can’t be destroyed.

Definitely worth considering though.

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I think for karna it comes down to how fast he pulls vasavi shakti, which is antl divine and should end the fight, however lore wise its kind of an double edged sword due it being an one time only attack… if Quetzalcoatl survives this karna has instantly lost
On that thought does karna have any other tools to take her out?

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There’s scope for it to go either way but it depends I think on how strictly you wanna play the Divine Spirit rules. Quetz seems to have had some kind of exception for Babylonia, but generally speaking she would be lacking a substantial amount of Authority due to being summoned as a Divine spirit in the constraints of a vessel, so I assume her Good immunity would be unable to proc in a properly neutral scenario. So then working forward from that, Karna has something of an advantage on account of having more defensive capability (from his NPs) and better attack range, meaning he’s more flexible and capable of responding to Quetz, whereas she has little more than whatever grade of Divinity she has to rely on to win through sheer force.

I think it really could go either way - it’ll basically be a stalemate until one of them gets off a direct hit with their killshot. I do think Karna would come out with a slight edge, probably 55/45, but it’s pretty even odds.


I think it was implied that her Trump card NP “Peidra de sol” on the top of her temple in Babylonia was giving her that authority and not the Temple itself. Considering all the participants are summoned with their NP’s, she should have it.

Even excluding that.

Xiuhcoatl: Flame, Burn the Gods to Ashes (炎、神をも焼き尽くせ(シウ・コアトル), Honō, Kami wo mo Yaki Tsukuse(Shiu Koatoru) ?) is the Noble Phantasm of Quetzalcoatl. The second coming of the flames that burned down her own temple in order to prevent the Evil God Tezcatlipoca from acquiring its many treasures, during a time when Quetzalcoatl was leaving the Aztecs. Flames envelop the surroundings, and enemies are temporarily prevented from invoking the True Name release of their Noble Phantasms.

I believe this might be useful to not let her invoke Karna’s Brahmastra or VS.

Quetz could keep up with Kingu who basically possesses all skills of Enki + a Holy grail within him and his chains couldn’t stop her because of her sheer force (and that’s without her using any NP’s).

Quetz with her NP deployed could vaporize most of the Chaos tide of Tiamat flowing directly from Tiamat and helped in killing her Horn too. Mind you, this is all after her power/Divinity was nerfed by half thanks to Merlin trolling.

Karna is definitely strong too and VS might kill Quetz, but I think Quetz would win this 7 times of 10.


@KamikazeAardvark how much prior knowledge have the combatants about each other ?


I will go for Quetz because Grim make some solid arguments on her favor on my opinion


So as far as I see it, Karna has one out in the form of Vasavi Shakti. If that fails, then he just auto-loses. His main, and really big issue is that Kavacha and Kundala is made from the radiance of the sun. Quetz is a sun goddess, she has an authority over that stuff. Even without her authority over goodness, her authority over the sun practically hard counters Karna’s defences.

Quetz’s ability to also summon a flying mount and create storms further gives her a huge tactical advantage outside, since she’ll have greatly increased manoeuvrability and the ability to create some obscurement so Karna is less able to target her, unless he uses Kavacha and Kundala to burn through the storm with the sun’s light, at which point game over because of the stuff stated above.

Karna has a slim chance, but if Quetz evades his one attack or shuts it down with Xiuhcoatl, then she has so much of an advantage that it really isn’t even funny.


From what I can tell about Fate Lore all Servants have innate knowledge about other Servants once their true name is revealed. So I think they both enter knowing all the basic non-hidden knowledge Servants seem to have about one another once they know who they’re fighting since neither of these combatants seem likely to shy away from a challenge or act cowardly for an edge.

The knowledge Servants seem to have looks to be related to the myths regarding each hero so the specifics of how their Noble Phantasms work is probably not something they know for sure, but would still have a vague idea about.


Ok thanks

The results are in and it looks like our winner is Karna!

Seems enough people are willing to bet Karna’s one shot and personally I can’t blame them. Though Vasavi Shakti is one of Karna’s Noble Phantasms he never does use it in the Mahābhārata so the odds Quetz would know it’s in his arsenal and how much of threat it might be are low. Though Xiuhcoatl lets her prevent a True Name revelation Karna’s other abilities would do very little with Winged Serpent active so we have to question whether or not she would even feel the need to take the precaution.

Though props to @Owlcafe whether they intended to do so or not the overall voting ended up being 56/44 :fgo_bblaugh:

Might do this again at some point since it was fun to see the discussion again. :fgo_bbsmile:


I would say that this was a close one probably thanks to the good arguments that Grim give on favor of Quetz


Yeah Winged Serpent vs. Vasavi Shakti would be the deciding factor and it’s a tough call how exactly it would play out.


Well, on scenarios where Quetz it’s about to defeat Karna, because Karna it’s Karna she only would be able to damage him when he use VS, so she could maybe use Xiuhcoatl when he activates VS but before he it’s about to fire it.
As for the fight before the conclusion of it, i would say that Quetz would probably be giving Karna a hard time for how strong she is with or without her authorities

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