FGO Death Battles: Medea vs Gilles de Rais

It’s been a while since the last one eh.

We return yet again to a fight between F/SN and FZ (Probably the last one from me for any other i might do next) with probably the one class you don’t wanna leave alone for very long, the Casters.

Same rules as before apply:

Conditions of Battle:

  • No mana restrictions.
  • Neutral territory in the middle of a modern-day city district.
  • No Masters to consider.

Rules of Debate:

  • This is an objective battle. All debates MUST remain objective to the lore and logistics of the combatants.
  • No Waifu/Husbando Bias.
  • This is a lore, character, and statistical debate. No FGO gameplay will be considered for this fight.

One little change i’d put foward for those interested, at least in this case, is how the fight would go with Masters but mostly as an aside. With that out of the way, let’s go:

0 voters

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I know you said ‘no masters to consider’ but I really do feel like that a crucial win condition for Medea might be using Rule Breaker on Gilles’ master. Especially because while I do think Medea is the more stable and strategically minded servant, I don’t think she really has an answer to squidzilla.

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The No Master rule was just me copying @Bow-of-Sacae’s rules, hence why I mentioned having masters in this case.

medea’s magic is pure/stronger/age of gods stuff while gilles was a regular dude who got magic because of a book. Medea almost guaranteed to win

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

Medea runs through this with or without masters. Gilles is basically a fake caster, he barely manages to hit the mark. Medea is as close as someone can get to True Magic. Dr Romani also pointed out earlier in the game that she is in the top 5 of casters, which as someone who has good reason to be able to know how strong a caster is, is a high compliment. She has the advantage of high speed words of the divine, sanity, power, experience, and skill. The only thing that Gilles has is not cthulhu, but as we saw in Zero enough mana is going to destroy that thing. Plus you could argue rule breaker could break the connection to the book entirely which is all of caster gilles power. He is one of if not the weakest caster who actually casts in the throne.

Mmm…

Medea in my opinion has the advantage of being an intelligent and cunning tactician, while instead Gilles is simply crazy.

This means that if we do not consider Masters, Medea would probably win because Gilles will soon or later fall for one of her many traps / plots.

If we consider Masters instead, that’s what could make a difference.

Medea is a woman that does not trust other people and use them, so her master would most likely become her puppet.
There wouldn’t be a partnership, there would most likely be Medea and her puppet.

Gilles, as we see in the show, is crazy but loyal. Unless i remember wrong, he never once tryed to betray or disobey his master (granted, his master was a psycho too…)

What i’m trying to say is that if Gilles would be paired with a cunning enough Master, they could be able to overcome Medea. Her working solo could easily become her downfall.

Medea vs Gilles
I instantly think ecchi stuff :fgo_gudako:

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Great minds think alike :feh_navarreculture:

That’s why I voted for gilles

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Medea, everything Gilles conjures is fodder to Rule Breaker, up to and including (thank you Commando for immortalizing the term) squidzilla. And that besides her regular defensive & offensive capablities (matching Rin’s mansion-destroying gems effortlessly), or as everyone mentioned, her cunning and tactical approach compared to Gilles’s “You are my Jeanne!”.

I think you’d be insane to think Gilles could even hold a candle to Medea. I think fate kinda does her a massive disservice and I’d honestly love to see like 5* avenger ala Euripides’ play version of her in later life. The Greek word for the area and people of Iraq of the time is also attributed to her resettling there later in life. An extremely influential woman.

She’s an incredible, complicated woman in the Greek mythos. She has divine blood, she was taught by the queen of witches, she’s known to be highly intelligent and cunning, Jason and his crew would have been absolutely fucked without her bailing them out. She’s also interesting as she’s presented to possess both feminine and masculine qualities when considering how most women on ancient Greek myth were presented. She’s really fucking cool.

Compare this to corrupted ramblings of a mad knight? Absolutely no contest, she’d floor him.

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I’d say Medea has a ver high chance of winning assuming Gilles doesn’t pull out the Monstrosity from Zero because by that point, it’d take something comparable to Excalibur to bring it down.

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It’s stated in Zero that Gil could have easily wiped the thing out by bombarding it he simply had no interest and if Prisma is any indication given time to establish territory and fuel Medea is capable of a similar kind of magical bombardment. Have to take the actual Caster over the Caster on a technicality.

Gilles just for the tentacle material.

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Medea should win almost any encounters as she’s just stronger and better in almost every way. If they’re Just dropped in a city within visual range of each other then Medea wins. She can simply shank him with rule breaker by tricking him using one of her illusions of her self while she appears behind him. Or better yet just vaporise him with one of her rando beam’s. since each of her Rain of light beams are basically an A-rank attack, and Gilles has no Magic resistance so he’d be vaporised quickly. Essentially in an actual direct fight he just can’t take her in anyway.

If they’re Dropped in a city with prep-time and no knowledge of the others identity, then Medea likely still wins since she’s much better at recon and would work out where he is, and what he’s up to and would very quickly put an end to it, he might be a nobody mage but she’d likely very quickly work out how powerful his magic book is and go from there.

The only scenario I can see Gilles winning is if he’s given a handicap that almost guarantees the summon of his squid monster, since you’d need an anti-fortress NP to kill it which she doesn’t have, with infinite Mana it may be possible she can think of something that would let her kill it but that’s a hypothetical. But a scenario where he’s guaranteed to summon his monster is just a tad biased in his favour anyway.

With Masters it’s even more of a stomp in Medea’s favour especially if we’re going with their actual masters being Kuzuki and that crazy murderer dude from Zero. As it means there should no longer be no mana restrictions and so all she has to do is Jab his master with rule breaker and it’s GG or just hit either of them with her rain of light. And if her Master is Kuzuki he alone could likely kill Gilles in direct combat if he catches Gilles by surprise as he did Medusa and Seibah.
Even if it’s just rando no name masters she’ll just keep hers enslaved and locked away tight with a close watch where no one can reach them anyway. While she does what she did in FSN where she sets up shop and siphons magic from all over the city. Which would make her almost unbeatable to someone who’s got limited Mana.

I dunno about that. The reason Gilles got on well with his master was due to them both being completely bonkers. Gilles has “mental pollution A” as a skill. Meaning he’s so bat crap insane that he’s not gonna have his mind hacked basically. But it also means “it becomes impossible for one to come to a mutual understanding with individuals who do not possess an equivalent rank of Mental Pollution”. So even if he has a “cunning enough” master they’d also have to be as psychotic and crazy as Gilles for them to get along. Which being cunning enough to make any difference against Medea whilst also being crazy enough to get along with Gilles is a tall order and a bit of a handicap that benefits Gilles.

Plus at the end of the day having masters means they’d no longer have the “no mana restrictions” and so all Medea has to do is eliminate Gilles master and it’s all over, it’d just be one more weakness. Where as most of the time Medea’s downfall has been Kuzuki, so if she’s got a puppet master that’s locked away then she’s actually got one less weakness.

So yeah all round Medea should come out on top, Gilles only chance is if he can by some miracle manage to summon his Cthulhu knock off, which the chances of that are pretty low.

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An interesting matchup, as both can summon basically endless amounts of underlings.
However, I’ve gotta agree with the majority here.
Looking at their parameters, Gilles only is higher in strength (which Medea isn’t gonna be fighting in close combat anyway) and in NP (which we’ll discuss in a bit), and Medea is higher ranked in everything else.

Though I do find it rather weird that so many people are saying “she can just shank him with Rule Breaker” or “everything he has would get countered by Rule Breaker” when it would mean getting in melee range of him when she likely wouldn’t need to take that kind of risk in the first place, must less actually decide to do that. In a fight against Gilles I only see her using that either against his master or as a last resort if needed. Why stab his book to throw off the summoning when you can just spam magic attacks and kill his summoned creatures from afar?

Back on topic, with her outclassing him in almost every way it comes down to whether she has an answer to his monstrosity.
I see here people are calling it squidzilla, though most likely it is a Shoggoth of some sort, ticks the main boxes:

  • amoeba-like creature that can alter its form
  • tends to prefer a form with lots of eyes, mouths and pseudopods
  • associated with water
  • mindless servant

Also just visually there’s some resemblance:
Giant Horror

image

There isn’t a definitive answer as to whether Medea would be able to kill it, though her ability to spam A rank magic blasts as a bombardment does sound like it might do the trick, but there’s the additional aspect that it takes a significant casting time to summon, which would give Medea time to notice what’s happening and interrupt the process before he can actually summon it. Seemingly it also requires a body of water.

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Pretty much the only way Gilles can win this is if he is given free time and immediately summons his giant monster.

Medea otherwise holds far too many advantages both in and outside of combat. In combat she can fly and teleport to stay out of his reach, has wide bombardment spells to wipe out Gilles monsters faster than the reverse, has (far) much more experience being a mage and is (relatively) more sane. In addition if she figures out Gilles’ power comes from the book and the book alone (should be easy for an age of the gods magus) she can freeze space around him (like she did with Emiya) for an easy Rule Breaker. In an outside of combat scenario she can use her magic to have surveillance over the city (like she does with Shirou) which means she’s more likely to find him than the other way around.

Even if you factor masters into consideration that really only gives Medea a possible puppet she could take control of. Given Gilles’ canonical master was just an ordinary serial killer it should be as easy as when she took control of Shirou. If Medea has Kuzuki as her master then it’s still a stomp since Kuzuki enhanced easily stomps Gilles’ master and would be able to hold his own against Gilles’ monsters. Even if Kuzuki finds himself in danger Medea has more ways of getting him out of trouble than vice versa.

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I don’t think it’s actually that one sided for Medea, tentacle material wish fulfillment aside.

Medea’s summons are garbage, seen from UBW, those skeletons didn’t do anything even to Shirou/Rin while Gilles’ even gave Saber with a proper Master trouble.
I’d say it would take more mana for Medea to blast the things than for Gilles to create.

Another psychological tactic is that Medea, from UBW, frees the captive children from her original Master, and probably has her own traumas regarding them (while the myth is famous for having her killing her own children, there are others where she doesn’t and others did).

Gilles has no problem killing children, which might trigger Medea to a reckless action into a trap. Also the part where he sends a child to Saber and the kid blows up, could be a nice bait.

Medea isn’t as a cruel and pitiless as she likes to be seen. She doesn’t kill anyone from mana drain in UBW, despite her Master not giving a shit had she killed the entire city. She let’s Taiga go unharmed. Doesn’t betray or mind controls Soichirou either.

If Medea found out Gilles’ hideout in Zero there’s no way that wouldn’t cause a massive trauma trigger on her, something Gilles would be able to exploit (despite his insanity, he’s quite intelligent and tactiful, considering how he went for Saber, planned his hideout and etc).

I don’t think Gilles will be able to summon his C’thulhu wannabe in most scenarios. It seems to take forever and consider a giant amount of mana and him standing there for hours, which Medea would notice and would retaliate.
Unless she gets wounded in one of those traps/triggers mentioned above and Gilles uses the time, then it’s game for Medea. Or Gilles baits Medea with children on the other side of the city while he does the ritual.

She’s from the Age of Gods and a disciple of Circe, but she’s more a healer/diviner/adviser than a “fireball a mountain away” type of mage. Rule Breaker is never touching Gilles either.

The question would be how Rule Breaker would interact with the C’thulhu…

This is literally the single combat application of Rule Breaker. The only thing it can do WELL, is nullify magical constructs (“life created through magic” per wiki) and enchantments. Gilles s literally the only servant against whom Rule Breaker is Not Completely Useless.

Not to mention Medea can easily control the mana in the atmosphere better then Gilles (who needs it to summon and sustain squidzilla)

The thing is the C’thulu thing is not a magical creature or construct, it’s akin to an extradimensional alien creature, similar to the Outer Gods races. The “magic” is to bring it forth and keep it there, but the creature itself is not magical.

They are removed from the Common Sense of Man, the normal laws of physics and the principles of magecraft. TheY do have flesh and have finite lives, but there’s no magic.

So Rule Breaker is essentially out of the question if the plan is just touch a tentacle with it… Medea would have to blast the creature open and hit Gilles or the book with it before it regenerates, thus severing the link between the dimensions… or one shot it with an Excalibur type spell somehow…

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