Foreigners Gameplay Discussion

How are foreginers gameplay wise. How relevant are they in future. How much use they have for Story, CQ, and lottery quests. Heard LB1 has lots of berserkers or something so foreginer class is useful to have.
Normal comps usage wise are they sort of similar to Avenger/Ruler class which you don’t really need to have in your roster as they aren’t really needed except in some story quests where you just have to borrow them or are they like Alter Egos extra class, which you also don’t need except some in some story quests but are quite useful if you have your own copies against assassin and other enemies.
Eg haven’t really used the former despite having, but use latter alot against assassin comps due to lack of damage dealing caster.
As well as a discussion for the above in terms of Abby vs. Hokusai usefulness purely from gameplay perspective.

Not sure if there’s already a thread with the relevant details.

same as just about anything else with this game, they’re far more of a luxury to have. as opposed to a necessity

I can’t speak for Abby as much, but I do know that Hokusai is indeed powerful and even outside of her Foreigner designation. She fits incredibly well into either a traditional or crit-based Arts team, though she generally won’t shine too brightly until she’s pit against enemies with the Man trait. Fortunately, there’s a lot of those.

As mentioned above though, both Foreigners are luxuries and you can get by any piece of content in the game without them. That’s how it goes for pretty much any extra class.

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Not really though. Having a decent SSR both ST & AOE of each class (atleast non-extra) is quite useful. They are really essential to make life easy for all quests whether story, CQ or farming events.

being useful isn’t the same as being a requisite though

Definitely, even SSRs aren’t a requisite in that sense. However for farming lotteries or events efficiently, you can’t really do without them.

you… actually can though?

barring some occasional freak obnoxiousness, like the upcoming christmas3 lotto

I mean maybe a support waver/merlin/skadi aside, but I’m ignoring that, since you don’t have to supply it yourself

and of course, there’s also the question of a distinction between turn or drops efficiency (and yes, I know double skadi memes handle both)

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Extremely minimal. Abby’s been completely irrelevant since release from a CQ perspective. Hokusai had about 3-4 months in the sun as an (inferior) Gil sweep alternative, but she got completely powercrept by Skadi comps. Neither of them are relevant for farming, one is a ST servant, the other hits like a wet noodle with completely garbage NP refunds

Story quest wise, anything goes. But for what its worth, neither of them are particularly useful against the final boss of LB4 - a berserker, purely due to his ability to crit them to death through class advantage.

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I think foreigners as a class are very good, for a simple reason.

Lets think about Abigail.

12000 ATK for a class that does neutral damage to all save alter egos. And double samage to berserkers.

Foreigners are like a Avenger class specialized on taking out berserkers.

Abigail high atk stats ensure that even if she does not have the 1.1x multiplier of avengers, she packs a good damage.

But the fact is that Foreigners are indeed a luxury.
I see no point in getting them unless you like, like me, versatility.

Afterall, foreigners can be used anytime, like avengers. Neutral damage plus high ATK wnsure thart they are always effective.

Effective, not specialized

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In terms of damage against Berserkers, I’m quite sure anyone would point to certain DPS units that get the job done better than Foreigners, even certain Berserkers.

However, the one good point I will always value about Foreigners is the fact that they are the ONLY class to receive HALF damage from them. But, to be honest, much like the other Extra classes, there’s a reason as to why they are grouped as “Extra”. They are not the main bulk of the game and are, rather, a rarity class. If anything, they’re there to explore other possibilities when you lack the key figure in X quest.

In all fairness, the only Extra class servant that has always had, still does and will always have use for any situation is Mash, the only Shielder servant in the game.

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Wait until Part 2 drops.

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In essence though this leads to the question, IMO, of “How frequent are (difficult) sole Berserker bosses?” for Abby, and “How frequent are waves of Berserker mooks, and what does Hokusai bring to the table offensively that makes her an outright superior choice to others with charge?” Then finally, the obvious self-explanatory defensive question, of how much that class adv matters in practice. So, during stuff like MHXA or Eric in Gilfest, or cases like what crumbling mentioned (beyond which I can only think of the LB4 Berserker/Assassin boss fight offhand).

Yes, they are objectively “effective” insofar as class adv is always king, but how effective are they versus the trade-offs you make using them as opposed to others for deleting or surviving against Berserkers? Or heck even during basic farm periods. Abby deals 45-76K against Berserkers. Her neutral damage, which is even harder to argue for than Avengers due to the x1.0 damage mod, is naturally less appealing.

If you have Jalter, she’s already relatively as good if not better at deleting specifically Zerkers afaict, in between her Self-Mod and other steroids and junk. Heck, I remember finding an incredibly bare-bones budget comp where she was used as the DPS vs Eric in BINY 2019 and won handily. I can’t find it immediately… will edit it into this post in the coming days, alongside other stuff. (I mention Eric because that battle can’t be cheesed with Euryale/Orion.)
If you have Bedivere even NP1, he has an equal charge to Abby (and actually strictly higher in 3T scenarios), and more damage (71K vs 45K-76K NP1-5 for the eldritch daughter as mentioned), at lower Cost, for farming.
Mecha Eli is also effective against Zerkers, and deals 91K on her burst turn (although true she falls off immediately after, but proper team comp plans around such).
If they’re a Berserker Male, Euryale cleans them up on a budget and has an almost-similar battery (again strictly higher in 3T scenarios).
If you have any of Chloe/Ridertoki/Shiki, all of them have similar or higher batteries and stronger immediate damage, and two of them (Chloe/'toki) are well-noted for their ability to follow it up with more. To say nothing of the former two and their being especially BG-compatible.
We will also be getting San(ta) with her 20% charge (similar in 3T scenarios), who deals 109K at NP5, on top of being able to support the turn after with her star bomb of an NP (or do less damage and give someone an NP Up).
If you have Carmilla, post-upgrade her NP1 deals more vs lady Berserkers than her, and she’s got a similar charge.

And a lot of those are just budget options. If their main appeal is ostensibly deleting Berserkers, but that job can generally be matched or done better in most cases by freebies or just other units you might obtain, in general. Heck, the recently released Yagyu has markedly superior damage, can also be nabbed via the GSR, and can reliably shut down enemy offenses which IMO is much more effective for shutting down dangerous enemies here despite class adv in Abigail’s case since it also helps the entire team (though granted, is shut down by regular debuff cleansing). If looking at neutral damage/mixed mobs you’re running Zerk.

So that leads me to ask, “Okay, what about buff removal?” Martha is permanent and can clear buffs at the tap of a button. Tristan appears not-rarely as a rate-up SR, and can also remove buffs, alongside being especially BG-compatible thanks to his 50% charge (although less 3T-compatible due to the annoying self-NP Seal). Hime is a permanent SSR Swho’s like a weird higher Cost Shakes-like in terms of buffs, and can also strip buffs. Jack is a permanent SSR who can also strip buffs and deal way higher damage if against ladies. Later, Alex gets AOE buff removal. Shinjuku Avenger is a permanent SR who can also strip buffs. One is outright free, three can be chosen via the GSR tickets. None of them also have her AOE charge and/or NP Up, but the NP Up can at least be imitated through Santera’s targetable one for your most important unit (DPS).

Which then leads me to wondering about surviving Zerks, and subsequently how common and/or generally dangerous they are. Crumbling mentioned one actually dangerous case (i.e., post-Part 1 because P1 is trivial), and that she gets deleted despite class adv.
There’s Shinjuku’s Berserkers, against whom you can handily clear at least half with a combination of Euryale and Bedivere, before handling them with your strongest AOE unit(s).
There’s Agartha’s several Berserker fights. One is a Male Berserker, so Euryale/Orion/TamaLancer clean him, and also just any strong ST attacker nuke-wise, before only having to deal with one bar for the girl Berserker, but she’s handled similarly when actually fought properly. Then there’s the Berserker/Rider almost-penultimate fight, although the Berserker also has an AOE basic attack because screw you lol.
There’s the Berserker/Rider (… again) fight in Shimousa, which could literally just be handled by Bedivere -> another strong ST follow-up -> Assassins; that’s what I did, by throwing Bedi then later HFH and others at the duo. Meanwhile, the Berserker’s got an AOE NP

Definitely, you can just run her due to SSR stats, variety of buffs, and buff removal (although that won’t help you with the stacking of unremovable offensive buffs regardless)… which, well, there you go I guess. Obviously, anything goes. You can use whatever, and the game is rarely very punishing, and thus far even when it is punishing there are counter-measures for that. She can even be ran during CQs like the aforementioned Eric fight, can be used as a soloist for the upcoming Setsubun vs Golden for another example, or as an Arts-stall DPS with the typical defensive core as shown in this example against Setsubun’s CQ. You’ve also got the GDGD 2 rerun CQ, which I consider an absolute joke not even worth mentioning, but might as well while I’m giving examples of usage despite my not thinking she’s worth going for (focusing on Abby because this is already a lengthy post). Meanwhile there’s this with her vs Gilfest Ecchan although the comp is pretty whaley, and even her being ran class neutrally vs Gilfest Leo (fun fact at one point she gets critted for 15K), and Gilfest Sheba. And her vs CCC BB (and MHX in the same event). Also her vs the Jaguar Girls in Gilfest 2018 (although it also uses PG/Outrage). I primarily link CQs because generally Story quests are a joke and you can obviously run her against whatever the heck, I generally run my Sparty during non-boss story segments (and frequently during bosses) because I like him a lot. So it’s like, that goes w/o saying, obviously it’s viable.

Far as Abby and Oui go it’s comparing apples and oranges, their kits are built and they function very differently. Both are heralded as CQ girls, although Oui is more acclaimed for sweeps (and I get why), so I guess I’ll give it to her.

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Nah she’s actually still great then.

Oh yeah…you mean…THAT, right? Yeah…let’s ignore that for a second :fgo_casgilworry:

As far as Foreigners go, let’s not forget about the third one that doesn’t get talked about as much as fan-favorites Hokusai and Abigail. With solid damage numbers for a 4-star servant, nice steroids and Arts compatibility, Mysterious Heroine XX seems like a solid pick for the upcoming Part 2 Anti-Berserker Bonanza :fgo_judge:

I know, it’s a summer servant and she’s the third act to a big joke. Flame me in the comments

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She only taunts and her invul skill isn’t targetable anymore.
And she has a Buster-crit-skill!? She doesn’t need a skill suited for a dps.

“Only” having two native taunts is legitimately fantastic (no less on a 0 Cost unit), that’s entirely why I say she’s great and why she actually is. The fact that her first skill is weird is irrelevant with a kit like that. It’s like people pointing out the Dragon part of Sieg’s kit as if it means anything in terms of being a bad unit (which he is not).

The saving grace of Avengers and Rulers as neutral DPS is that they benefit from x1.1 effective ATK on top of not suffering class disadvantage vs. Knights and Cavalry.

As others have pointed out, Abby is single-target (hence automatically not desirable for most farming) with horrible NP gain, and Hokusai, while AoE-capable, has poor damage outside of her trait targets.

She comes with a preemptive niche. Her utility lies in that, not because of her class. But I really prefer to have her instead of Abby, given of much easier she is to get. Although honestly, I would defend Abby as much as possible if I would have been able to get her somehow.

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That’s not a problem, afterall i dislike farming and value more CQ servants.

Anyway, as i said, Foreigners are a Luxury. Nice to have, useful to use, but not necessary to clear the game.

Also, the only true foreigner that i really like is MHXX.

Not to mention that I did not even roll for Abigail, i rolled for Cat Caster. It’s Abby’s fault if now i have her.

But that’s fine. Always happy to have something different to improve gameplay.

In the end, i accept all their shortcomings. I’m grateful enough to have Abby, even if the cost was Cat Caster.

A NP2 SSR is always a nice addition, no matter the class or what downside does this servant have.

And anyway, Foreigners are always a good choice for mixed nodes, if you do not want to use the usual berserkers

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She might be great for solos, but she is no great support anymore.
I’m comparing her to what she did before, and what she does afterwards.

Before: Giving full party DEF; Targetable Invul with 20 % NP; Taunt tied to abnormal high NP gain, making it jokingly easy to use her NP on demand.
After: Buster+Buster-Crit buff; Taunt with 20 % NP for self; Taunt with Invul + decrease HP for herself

All of Camelot Mashs skills are invaluable. She’s an amazing support and makes every team automatically better.
Orthenaus Mash gets put into a niche. She might work as a support for solos and against enemies with ST NPs/Servants with long NP bars. But outside of that, I render her useless. Not even her 0 cost (which I’m well aware of) helps making up for that.
Considering that there are quite a few bosses with AoE attacks in Part 2. Sure, she might work against Servants that have to charge their NP bars first.
Even her NP got nerfed in that she has no ATK buff anymore and the Damage cut can screw you with bad RNG.