Frenzy Plant Torterra in the PvP and PvE meta

I’m sure we’ve all had enough of the bullshit: Torterra is obviously getting FP like each of its Grass predecessors.

Now that I’ve belabored the obvious, let’s have a more complex discussion:

Where does Torterra fall in the PvP and PvE meta?

With FP, a functional Attack stat (unlike Meganium), and a functional fast move (unlike Sceptile) does it threaten Roserade for best Grass type? That Ground subtyping hurts in Water type raids (especially Blizzard Kyogre… Yuck) but helps against Rock types, though Rock has a laundry list of Pokemon of other types (MM Metagross, Machamp, etc) which pretty much definitely counter them better.

Torterra also has a pretty large move pool that could be useful for gyms. Earthquake is a horrible move, but getting STAB on it means Torterra could take on, say, Metagross without being forced out, unlike Roserade or Sceptile. There’s Stone Edge if you feel the need to leave Torterra in on Flying or Bug types for some reason. A very cheap cost for a second charged move helps.

In PvP, Torterra is already pretty appealing in at least Great League. I’m notsure about Ultra, though I suspect a likely negative matchup against Giratina, taking a bajillion years to charge Earthquake against Steels and not having much to shield bait with hurts. But, Razor Leaf, FP and a functional Attack stat may give it potential as a nice closer?

Then again, since Razor Leaf is so strong and charges CMs so slowly, is FP redundant? EdgeQuake gets good coverage. Anything weak to Grass just gets mowed down by Razor Leaf anyway, and having extra coverage may be preferred.

Thoughts?

idk about PVP, but in PVE its about 4 spots down even with a hydro cannon clone. Against the 4x weak Rock/Ground type its behind Kyogre, Roserade, Sceptile, Swampert, Breloom, Feraligator, Venusaur, and Gyarados in DPS w/ FP. It has very high TDO, but Swampert would still fill that role better as a tank counter with much better DPS thanks to Hydro Cannon being godly.

With as little energy as it gains from Razor Leaf, the upgrade to its grass-type charged move is not going to change much. It will still be better than it was before, in situations where it was already the best due to typing (something that attacks with electric moves, and is more vulnerable to grass than it is to ground), but that’s a fairly narrow niche.

As a PvE attacker, it’ll sit just under FP Venusaur in DPS, but does boast the best TDO amongst non-legendary Grass types. It’ll perform decently, but not spectacular, with his typing not really doing him any favours - probably godly against electric types (or those that use electric moves) that are also weak to grass, but they’re few and far between.

In PvP, it already has the tools it needs to get the job done, and it’s a pretty niche pick to begin with, needing type-restricted cups to stand out. Should it later on get another fast move that charges energy quicker, that might change, but Mud Shot or Vine Whip (the obvious choices) cannot be learnt by him.

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It’s PvE performance is roughly equal to that of FP Venusaur, trading small amounts of DPS for small gains in TDO. Its ground typing hinders it in more cases than helping it due to taking water hits unresisted. On the flip side, triple resistance to Kyogre’s Thunder is a fun niche.
For people with FP Venusaur it won’t really do much for them. For people without access to legacy counters it fills the gap between Roserade and Leafeon pretty nicely, even if the ground typing holds it back some.

Frenzy Plant is great for PvP, but due to Torterra being a Razor Leaf user this is almost redundant. I say almost because Frenzy Plant’s low energy cost can help it get charge hits in quicker. I still plan to try and get one for Great League because hey, You NeVeR KnOw when you’ll need it.

In pve I was thinking triple resistance against thunder Kyogre and also could it surpass legacy Sceptyle and Breloom against sunny weather earthquake Groudon?..those are the only scenarios I can imagine for CD Torterra.

Next to a triple resistance to electric, it will also have a resistance to rock, while most grass pokemon don’t have that.
It’s rather annoying that for some odd reason ground doesn’t resist fire though.

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What about Ultra League (or Master League) potential with Bite? Bite+Frenzy Plant+Stone Edge might be the combo for PvP…

In PvE , it doesnt looks good. Ground typing cancel Water resistance and making double vulnerable to Ice. Only viable( and quite good) matchup here is Thunder Kyogre.

Vs Ground typing is neutral, but only real true raids to use Torterra here is Groudon and Rhydon( maybe Golem).
Vs Solar Beam Groudon its downgrade, vs Fireblast kinda unviable, like other grasses. Only vs Sunny Earhtquake it can be used well. Against Rhydon( and Golem) will only shine vs Stone Edge set.

Vs Regirock looks good, but Metagross is superior here anyway.

Overall it have only few niches to shine and i wont evolve hard. The best of its CD is triple dust.

Imho all 4 gen starters are poor.

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Ok I read everyone’s points. But we’re forgetting that Torterra has a little miniature continent growing on the top of its shell.

So I’m gonna max a FP one and probably use no other Grass type ever.

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I was using a decent stats level 33 Torterra as a solo artist against Sparky’s original training team, but it was kind of upside down, and earthquake didn’t really rock against Zapdos, while Solar Beam took forever and a week to charge up with Razor Leaf. With Frenzy Plant, it should do much better, but the team has already changed to Raikou, T-Tar and Zapdos, and with the trainers using shields, first priority is to burn those off, so ???

Thinking about it, Breloom is probably a good choice - hit the electrics with plant attacks, and T-Tar with Counter.

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Empoleon should be pretty good with its secondary steel typing and 11 resistances. It could be an optimal counter depending on who it’s against and it could make waves in PVP.

PvE wise Swampert and Kyogre beat it against Ground types and Fire types. Metagross beats it against Rock types.

Not every pokemon has 1 type though and not everyone has 6 metagross in their pocket lol

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That depends entirely on if you played during Beldum’s CD last year. Especially if you’re in APAC, who needed a redo due to server issues and said redo landed during a double candy event.

Steel and water combined doesn’t help the water typing that much. Empoleon is weak to ground, doesn’t resist fire and only gains a resistance to rock. In raids its use is because of that limited to rock offence and maybe some niche scenarios like taking neutral hits from solar beam.
Swampert will continue being the better water starter in pvp too

11/10 best reason to evolve a Torterra and play the Community Day.
Dude (Dudette?) your posts are always on-point! :laughing:

Wasn’t saying it was the best option for everything water or that it was the best water starter, just that HC Empoleon’s resistances will make it a good counter depending on the scenario (not 7 choices down like torterra) and again, I think PVP will be shaken up with it.

Breloom says hello.

But I’m not sure what scenarios grass would be used to counter a rock Pokémon, maybe sunny weather regirock raids? Since metagross is better in neural weather, and Breloom also resists rock while sporting much better DPS, zapcannon cpuld be the only set I can think off. Terrakion we don’t know what we have to go up against since it’s not gen 5 yet (much sadness about that)

It’s a niche that exists, not a wide one but does. It could do well against a sunny zapcannon regirock with that triple resist, or if we get a jungle cup esque cup again with electric being bigger and vigoroth isn’t let in or just not a pick spammed by everyone, or rainbow cup with gen 3/4 pokes. But other than those pretty narrow ones, not much unless if gets better fast moves in both formats or just better non FP charge’s for pvp (RLs good but takes forever to charge, why else does everyone prefer vinewhip on meganium and venusaur)

He did say “most”, not all.

Rock isn’t really relevant in T5 raids but Rhydon has been a semi-regular in T4. Golem as well, though it’s so outclassed on both typing fronts these days it’s hard to justify the pass expenditure on one. Especially since it doesn’t have solo glory behind it anymore.