Game Master Changes - Charm Added and Doom Desire Modified

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

  • Doom Desire changes from 2-bar to 3-bar move with a reduction in power from 80 to 70

  • Charm listed as a damaging fast move, slightly worse than Confusion (I think?).

Some saucy sauce:



If I’m reading those numbers right, in PvP, Charm is a 2-turn move that deals 16 dmg and gains 6 energy. That’s an 8 DPT/3 EPT move, which is pretty broken. I’m assuming there’s either a typo, or it’ll get changed before it goes live, or Niantic really wants us to use Fairies in PvP.

The adjustments to Doom Desire for PvP are probably necessary as well, since it was slated to be the best charge move in the game by quite a bit. It’ll still be good, just less overwhelmingly so.

Seems like Doom Desire got a PvE buff and PvP nerf.

I’m wondering if Charm is the Ralts CD move and that’s why it’s so good i.e. just use Gallade/Gardevoir for everything in PvP! But more likely, they haven’t nerfed it for PvP (like Confusion) to have the damage match the speed or visa versa. Niantic tends to do a 2nd pass for PvP balance. Still, it’s exciting that it’s in the game as a damage-dealing move!!!

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I do hope that Charm will be given also to the other fairies. Granted only Gardevoir, Togekiss and Granbull would be viable for raids, but Clefable and to a lesser extent Wigglytuff would at least be solid secondary options for gym defense.

This is how charm would perform with the current fairy types. Looks promising.

That being said, I do wonder if Charm will in gen 8 become a damaging move…

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Hopefully Gardevoir at least gets it. My gut feeling is if it isn’t in preparation for a Community Day they’ll just add it to the Ralts line for Go Fest.

Under the right conditions those three become choice raid picks, finally allowing them to be successful in their niche as bulky dragon counters.

With those numbers, I’d definitely add in my Gardevoir and Togekiss to my dragon-slayer lineup in place of a couple Dragonites. Comparing Gardevoir to Dragonite, you lose a negligible amount of DPS by subbing in Gardevoir in exchange for over 3x more TDO. Yes, so much yes.

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His screenshot had cloudy weather too though.

So you lose a negligible amount when you have cloudy weather.
Therefore you lose a negligible amount more than 20% when you don’t have weather behind your fairies.
And a 40% gap when there’s wind.

In wind, I definitely wouldn’t bother.
In neutral weather, I’d be torn. If I knew it was DM and was short manning, it might be worthwhile.
In cloudy weather, of course it’s worthwhile.

Overall though? I don’t think it’s worth the investment. Better off just dodging with the dragons.

Yeah, you definitely need to play the weather with them. Cloudy? Absolutely. Anything else? Maybe.

Oh, drat, totally didn’t notice the cloudy weather. I’ll see myself out. :rofl:

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LOOK AT THAT TDO!!! If that sim is right, that makes Dialga pointless (and a lota other Dragons)!!!

Ok, so not a totally NUTS but still fits the anchor slot nicely.

I dont even think that would happen, since they would still lose to other counters. agaisnt dragons, other dragons are almost always king, only time they wouldn’t would be cloudy double dragon moves. Machamp already beats down dark types so well, and most of the relevant dark types have a weakness to fighting thats one level of effectiveness greater than fairy (tyranitar, sneasel, to an extend houndoom) and that would really only leave fairies good agaisnt machamp raids that arent using heavy slam, and things double weak to fairy. ITs mostly due to them being outstated and their competition having some of the best movesets, they’ll be like magnazone, niche within a niche type and very circumstance dependent.

I dont thing gym defense will matter for pink ones, since…Metagross…

I dont think gallade would get it, and a ralts line Cd would probably give both the same charge move, I think this is more of a move expansion thing, but I could be wrong.

Thats TDO and DPS for the weather, without it those numbers drop substantially, as well as those are double dragon sets, against any other charge move or lacking the weather, dragons are still much better

With Charm, Gardevoir would be more effective at slaying dragons in gyms. Mamoswine would still take them down faster, but if the dragons have dragon moves (*) and depending on other defenders in the gym, Gardevoir may be a great backup option.

*My maxed Mamoswine has also been 1HKOed by Salamence’s hard-to-dodge SE Hydro Pump.

Oh yeah, the dragons that get one shotted when the charge move hits, combined with the random shadow hits… yeah I’d stick in this case with something that can survive a hit and doesn’t result in getting relobied twice during the raid. Dragons are good against the dragons that don’t have a dragon charge move and that’s it. Also at least for me cloudy weather is very common, so I certainly wouldn’t mind if the fairy type finally ends up being useful.

As of gym defense. Every single defender has an easily exploitable weakness, which is why one needs to have varied gyms. That’s why charizard and typhlosion with Blast Burn are good defenders against metagross, since they deal SE damage, as well as being one of the rare counters that resist steel.


Thats what I mean, specific movesets, but dialga also exists now. Dragons are still much more often the better option to go with. The dodge bug has been fixed, so fairies will only be good agaisnt dragon charge moves, and really, if we are being honest, its just things like palkia with DM, or maybe outrage latias or windy DC latios, since non windy DC on latios isnt strong and dialga can also take those hits well, and you dont use dragons agaisnt Ray anymore, Giratina’s moves are also weak to same there.

And a lot of fairies dont have the moves to deal with metagross, things like blissey could weak with machamp because they had the counter coverage moves, the faires dont. Its why gardevoir cant do anything to metagross despite having shadow ball, it goes down too fast, while togekiss can somewhat with hidden power (it doesnt do much, but it can at least his for some super effective damage with a good HP type). Other pokemon in gyms is a different matter since coordinated gyms are always much stronger since they can cover for the deficiencies in other pokemon’s moves

Dialga has only Draco Meteor, which is big NO from me. Too unreliable for my liking.

As of Blissey, her low attack stat really doesn’t make much of an impact. Plus Metagross resists all of her moves and despite dealing only neutral damage it defeats her rather fast too. That’s the thing, gym defense has shifted to the point that the best defenders are a mix of varied types that cover each others weaknesses, so that people can’t just use one or two species to wreck everything in no time.

If we could know which is the moveset the raid boss will use(like in the old recommended system) we will be able to know if use our fairy or dragon team will be optimal, but right know is more safe to go with dragons( except for the cloudy weather or in duos when you take the time to check the moved and restart the raid).

Or how about someone goes in with a team to see what the charge move is? This saves quite a lot of revives and time tbh…

Draco Meteor is unreliable on Mons like Salamence and, to an extent, Palkia, who risk fainting before they can even fire it off once. Dialga, given it’s typing, doesn’t run that same risk. And while DB is a weaker move compared to DT, it’s also very fast. This makes dodging much easier, which also helps Dialga survive even longer.

DB definitely holds Dialga back in terms of raw DPS, but DM doesn’t. It’s actually a perfectly good move, especially on a Mon that has the bulk to pull it off reliably.


Eh, I’d say mostly fixed. I still get the occasional odd dodge death loop, but it’s less severe and definitely isn’t every single time anymore.