SO, I’ve got a Garchomp that currently has double dragon-type moveset and I’m considering switching it to ground type for the upcoming Raikou raid day as I have a lot of viable dragon type attackers (2 rays, 2 d-nites, salamence, palkia,dialga, even a dragon-type giratina, etc.). What are your thoughts on switching? I have a few ground type attackers, but I am relatively weak in the area. ONly have a few groudon, one rhyperior, and a few lower level golem that i’d need to invest in. I have plenty of fast TM and am willing to gamble on the charged TM (only have 3 currently) to get the moveset I need, but wanted to see what the community thinks about it.
It’s strong, but dragon is a competitive type. Garchomp currently sits at #5 in dragon-type DPS and #4 overall (DPS^3*TDO). Your dragon roster looks pretty well-fleshed out and there’s no immediate use for dragon types at the moment.
What levels are your ground attackers? Depending on how many people you plan to raid with you may be fine with what you have already. If you want to enter the TM lottery, Garchomp is #2 in ground-type DPS, only behind Groudon.
Remember if you do TM away you can always TM back to a dragon moveset. If you foresee yourself doing this regularly it may be more helpful to go the two charge move route so you only need to toggle the fast move.
The think with garchomp is the triple resistance to electric attacks, so as a dragon attacker it will only surpass the other top counters against very few scenarios, like thunder latias.
As ground attacker against raikou it will be the best against it’s thunder attacks and the second one against shadow ball(the first one is groudon). The think is that after the 3 hours raikou you will no see to many uses to ground in the legendary department (except for heatran, in wicht groudon it’s better).
So it depends in your personal choices and what pokemon and resources you have at hand.
Ok d say hold off on it now, ground it relatively useless, and once raikou passes (which is itself a not so useful mon anymore) ground will again be kinda useless, and groundon will be out in less than a week. dragons you got well locked down.
Garchomp is bound to get a better move when it’s eventual CD rolls around, so hold off till then if it’s still unevolved. A Pokémon that’s good for a three hour window then basically useless after that is something I cannot recommend when there’s such a chance for for it to get better with a CD. If it’s already evolved, you might as well set it to ground moves since it’s good for masters league and you will get some mileage from raikou, but swampert will be there for that soon too.
It is already evolved so the potential future CD is out for this one.
ALright, since it’s already evolved to Garchomp, I’m thinking that I will go ahead and switch it to ground as I have the Dragon covered well enough. I may end up switiching it back, but I could really use more optimal counters for Raikou even if it is only 3 hours on the raid day.
Until zekrom comes around. Garchomp will probably be the top tier dragon for those raids pending CD moves and all.
It could, but only if zekrom is using electric moves, otherwise Dialga is a thing that’s better for dragon moves
It would beed an absurdly busted CD moves for it to be a ground attacker that can rival the DPS of Rayquaza or even salamence, since the moves would Need to be good enough that the way extra bulk against electric makes chomp better, but not so good that it will just plain be better than rayquaza or mence against dragon moves. If it gets a better dragon move which I feel is more likely it wouldn’t bneed to be as busted, but still would need to more or less be better than Outrage.
That better ground move scenario would basically make groudon not knowing preicice blades garbage, since that’s how absurd the move would need to be, which doesn’t seem likely
The only way Garchomp’s ideal moves against Zekrom would be affected is if something better than Outrage or Earth Power is given to it - adding Earth Power to Garchomp’s repertoire is still slower than the tried and true DT/OR combo.
Not that that’s bad either. Against a dual electric Zekrom (Charge Beam/Wild Charge is its ideal moveset) Garchomp’s DPS trails the other dragons sightly as expected, but its TDO is completely unparalleled, almost twice that of Groudon’s. 14% slower than Rayquaza yet putting out over 4 times the amount of damage is insane.
That’s what i mostly meant. Having a two-type resistance to electric puts it’s TDO at #1 regardless of CD moves, but having a new move like a hydro cannon equivalent (dragon rush?) or something better than earth power could tip the DPS scales in garchomp’s favor.
But that’s due to garchomps use of the much better outrage, it’s ground typing offers little to no offensive benefits, so a not-better-than-outrage ground move would be the worse option to use, so functionality it would be useless beyond style points.
there’s near 4x effectiveness modifier per attack difference between ray and chomp, so garchomp dealing over 4x the TDO than ray when it’s got lower DPS means it would last longer than 4 (if my math is correct, around 4.6 times) rayquaza. It would be a beyond effective counter, but still only utilizing its dragon offensive power, as seen from its TDO difference with groudon, using theMS/Eq set shoes just how much worse ground moves are, even with its gargantuan stats, it trails so many.
I don’t know about your biome, but we often get Sunny weather in the Western USA which will boost Ground-type moves 20%, enough to easily make up that difference in DPS.
Garchomp with Dragon rush being a hydro cannon clone would put every other dragon in the category of functionality useless. Yeah they’d still be great, but when garchomp would that much better, why use an inferior Pokémon? It’s Like with jolteon luxray or zapdos (sadface), they aren’t necessarily bad Pokémon, it’s just made almost completely useless by the existence of better-for-same/less-cost Pokémon.
That and given even now Pokémon like mence and metagross are good generalists, a DR chomp with those stats would be basically the only think you’d ever use unless a double weakness or dragon resist was at play because it’s that powerful.
I’m 100% fine with that as long as i have 6 lol
Yeah, I hadn’t considered weather boost. Dragon Tail is still the better performer of the two fast moves so you could literally go DT/EP/OR and have the single best overall counter to a dual-electric Zekrom under any weather condition in a single Pokemon.
Weather boost, no matter how reliable, (and this is just my perspective) shouldn’t be related on for what makes a counter best. Since that scenario, no matter how unlikely, where the weather changes and your weather counter can’t preform best can happen.
It might be part because I’m from Upstate New York and weather can fluctuate between clear-cloudy, but also part because it needs that artificial push to be better. I prefer the weather less scenario for reasons of best over all, then when weather comes and it is the right weather it’s still going to be a top option if another counter is boosted above it (machamp says high from sunny dialga raids).
That’s kinda the point, it would break the entire game. Balance hasn’t been niantics strong suit, but new they understand the ‘if nothing will ever be better, we lose money’ side of something that OP.
When it comes to specific types, one Pokémon having extended supremacy of its type isn’t game breaking, mamoswine as the best ice doesn’t really Matter since it won’t get passed by another ice, but it’s not so strong that it’s always a go to option even against neutral opponents. Garchomp would replace just about everything except for counters to fairy or steel or that doesn’t have a double weakness and not weak to dragon. Imagine if that happened, and people were saying things like this; ‘don’t use machamp against blissey, Garchomps better’ because that would happen for many Pokémon.
They kinda already did that with Metagross by giving it Meteor Mash. In the steel department, Dialga should be king, but Meteor Mash is just so stupidly good that it puts Metagross in a league of it’s own. So my point is that Niantic could give Garchomp a new best-in-type move when Gible eventually has its community day. They’ve done it before.
Now, if they did and Garchomp gets Dragon Rush or some other move that’s superior to Outrage, it would potentially become the new top Dragon (depending on how busted it is). I doubt, however, that it would be busted to the point where a Garchomp dealing neutral damage would surpass a specialist dealing super effective damage. So its highly unlikely that it would break the game. Niantic would have to make the move really overpowered in order to achieve that result.
The thing with metagross isn metagross doesnt smash through neutrality to overcome Super effectives, what makes it desirable is that it can run a gym through and not need to dodge, something machamp cant, and made steel an actually good type offense wise. Meteor mash might be an amazing move, but Dragon tail/hydrocannon clone DR would do far more, since dragon is less resisted (one of those two types being weak to ground) and the other being fairy, which was specifically designed main series wise to hard coutner dragons. While I did exaggerate a bit with how amazing Dr chomp would be, it isnt that far off, it would likely be higher DPS than metagross, also have great bulk, and not be as easy to wall, since often water types are common gym sights that stop metagross, among other types, like fire and some electrics.