Gastly community day

Hi!

It’s always great to see one of your pretty rare shiny’s become obsolete.

So far for the introduction. This is about PvP, as Shadow Punch is obviously redundant in PvE and will not make a slight difference at all.

So, what do you think of Gengar with Shadow Punch?

Here are some thoughts of mine:
We already have Haunter in Great League. With the same moveset if Shadow Punch becomes available. Will Gengar be better now?

Comparison in stats:
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I guess you could say that… Gengar is slightly bulkier? Honestly, I think Haunter is still the way to go as the whole point of Haunter is not getting hit by a charged move, while trying to land a nuke. Though the differences are so small. Nonetheless I think this community day is very good for those lacking a decent PvP Haunter (like I do). So that’s a big plus for some people.

Now, Ultra League. Gengar actually has an incredible niche here. Those who’ve been hanging around rating 2200+ (or so I have read) probably have encountered a LOT of Cresselia’s running Grass Knot and Moonblast. And the PvP’ers here can all agree that Cresselia is unarguably the most overpowered thing in Ultra League, to the point that Registeel is the ONLY pokemon to reliably take it down. Melmetal, Ferrothorn and others can too, but Cresselia has the greatest move of all time called Moonblast, which has a 100% chance of debuffing you, and a 10% of you debuffing the opponent (obviously it’s a 30% chance in general), and thus flipping those matchups.

Yes, maybe a bit of frustration there. BUT the thing here is that Gengar absolutely destroys Cresselia here.

Cresselia with Future Sight:
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Cresselia with Grass Knot / Moonblast:
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Cresselia Future Sight actually wins in the 2v2 if Gengar decides not to bait at all, but this is looking very good for Gengar.

Other than that, Ghost is a very narrowly resisted type, and it can hit so much for at least neutral damage. It also resists Fairy, as it is a poison type. I’m not saying Gengar will totally shake up the UL meta, as it’s still a fragile fatty, however I am hoping that it will decrease the amounts of Cresselia’s in season 3.

Premier Cup:
I don’t want to get too much into this. Gengar doesn’t reach CP 3000 and despite being capable of one shotting Metagross with Shadow Ball, and resisting Togekiss’ charm, it’s niches are quite narrow, as there is not much play in the field of Swampert, Gyarados, Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Garchomp.

Let me know what you think!

Yeah, pretty much what you wrote.

The main draw here is definitely a new contender in Ultra League, one which should hopefully shake up the meta a little bit. It will have its uses in Great and Premier as well, though probably too flimsy to be any good in Masters.

Agree with the whole post (the shiny part is painfull). Gengar can shake things a bit depending in the metagame. I personally like it a lot, so this is a good CD for me.
Some minor things:

  1. great league. Pvpoke ratings are quite arbitrary, but they can give a general idea of performance. Now haunter sits in #91 with 325 wins total. Gengar with the same exact moveset reach 355 wins, 30 more. Wich ones? I don’t know, but the bulkiness can give it the “edge” in some situations. Or not at all, dind’t searched the extra 30.

  2. Ultra league. I feel exactly the same. Perhaps if gengar becomes relevant we start to see confusion cresselia more often? It’s not that bad to be honest, but I’ve faced only 2 in this season.

  3. Premier league. As you stand, this is niche at best, and I won’t spend resources to get a lvl 40 gengar only to resist charm and hitting metagross for SE at the same time. But if megas are a thing, we’ll have a new gira-o in masters that does not fear toge at all, trading some bulk for extra damage in it’s shadow balls. But this is pure theory. My 100% gengar is waiting, just in case

I really wish the two community days would have been flipped. That way we could have gengar to try out in UL this season and beedrill won’t be a thing until GL comes back anyway.

I’m not thrilled at the idea of having to replace my top ranked Haunter in GL with gengar so hopefully the two perform about the same. I would think they would but the 30 more wins cited in a previous post might tempt me…

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All that said, Future Sight is not at all uncommon on Cressalia simply because the poison- and fire-types meant for countering Fairies do a good job wrecking Cress (i.e. Scizor, Charizard, Muk, etc.). Winning with Gengar is going to be a matter of correctly guessing the opponents charge move with no wiggle room for errors. Some wins will be big, but really easy to lose.

I think the decision to have a Fast Elite TM in the CD box is dopey considering the CD move is a charged one. 🤦🏻

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Moonblast has a 30% chance of decreasing the opponent’s attack by one stage.

I’m a bit dissapointed as well.

Gastly is one of the few rare shinies I have, so there is the first let down.

With Gengar being one of my favourites, I grinded the “Make Three Great Throws” research like a mad man. So I ended up getting two Hundos there, plus a random wild caught 100% a little later.
Knowing Shadow Claw was legacy I held off on evolving them until Gengar raid day finally happened. I can only do solo raids, so I was pretty happy to get myself some perfect lick Gengars out of those.

Several Research tasks later I found another perfect Gastly, Shadow Claw lost its legacy status, and a second, unexpected, Gengar Raid day happened.
I pulled the trigger and maxed a fourth perfect Gengar with exclusive move.

And now, despite being cautious, doing everything the way Niantic wants me to do it, and save everything of value for later “just in case”, I still get locked out of yet another exclusive move for one of my favourite Pokemon.

It’s my own fault though, because who needs four perfect, maxed out Lick Gengars if one only does Solo Raids? I had it coming, I guess. A little allevation, that it might not be that great in the biggest leagues of GBL at least, so not having a perfect Shadow Punch version is not the end of the world. Until Megas drop and they keep their movesets upon evolution.

So far I couldn’t make Haunter work in Great league, so there is no reason to believe I could use Gengar to its full potential in Ultra, let alone Master/Premier.
I’ll try to, though.

Now there is hoping I can Mega evolve one of my Gengars and don’t have to hunt for the next perfect Gastly when that rolls out. On the other hand, a big part of this game is grinding for the mons you like, so its nice to get a reason to grind the same Pokemon again, after thinking you’re set for good.

If I can make time on C- day I’ll start the next Gastly grind session, but I’m definitely a little dissapointed.

Ranting works.

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it is dat swampy boi my guy

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I’ve been hunting down the 3 Great Throws research and no 100% Gastly yet :(

MartijnLW was joking, saying that it seems like opponent’s Cresselia debuff you almost all the time, but yours almost never debuffs the opponent’s. The parenthetical expression at the end states the correct odds, as you also posted.

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yeah didn’t come off to me that way just looked like bad math.

I’d argue that A-Gir is not the most overpowered thing in the UL, but certainly in the running for the most overtanked. Cresselia and Registeel are also in the competition. No surprise, these three are the top three right now on pvpoke.com’s listings for Ultra League.

Gira-A has been easier to fit in a team in my opinion (really I prefer matching Gira with my Registeel) but if my Cresselia had Grass Knot instead of FS…I would be tempted to pair Cress with Regi. However, Regi and Cress GK is totally blind to fire, so definite limits there. Gengar vs not BB Regi in one shield, with no baiting allowed is pretty good

Cress broke UL season 2 in my opinion. Far more oppressive than GirA and Swampert. Regi helped too, but there’s always answers a plenty for Regi

Not to say season 2 was terrible, but the meta was so much more diverse last season. Not to mention I don’t really ever remember timing out. There’s just so few solid answers to cress and nothing without a type advantage is ever going to beat it.

The lead position is what killed it for me. You either had to lead with something that was cress or beat it or else you’re going to lose lead a good 80% of the time. Plus cress v cress has gotta take the cake for one of the most boring, luck-based matchups ever.

I have a UL cress but I would totally not be upset to see Niantic nerf moonblast next time around for the good of the format.

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My comments on UL and Cresselia:

I used Cresselia in the UL this season. Mine is a holdover from a while back, caught it buffed, and it was easy to power up for UL. I think it stands at about 27% per Poke Genie. I run Moonblast and Future Sight, and do not lead with it.

I view Cress (in part) as Registeel’s protector - it does well with the fighting and ground types that beat Registeel, and can handle the fire sometimes, with luck. I like having Future Sight instead of Grass Knot because it does a big chunk of damage - otherwise Cress is just another version of Giratina-A, tanky, and spitting out little attacks that don’t do a lot. It destroys poison and fighters, and hits anything not resistant to psychic pretty hard, including Swampert. (I still struggle against teams with Swampert, though.)

I don’t think Moonblast is overpowered. It lacks STAB, and it’s only a little faster than Future Sight, which does a lot more damage. I use Moonblast in three situations: when I’m sure the foe will shield the attack, when the foe is weak to fairy, or when the foe resists psychic. Otherwise I use Future Sight. It’s fun going against Venusaur, and having the foe think that they resist Grass Knot and Moonblast, only to get almost OSKO’d by Future Sight.

There’s also a lot of things that give Cress trouble - Scizor, A-Muk, Obstagoon, Perrserker, Shadow Claw Giratina (it’s a win for Cress, but an expensive one), Charizard, Articuno, Registeel (obviously), Metagross, etc.

Maybe if I had a better Cress, I’d agree that it’s overpowered, but I don’t see it. It’s just a good choice for UL, and like any good choice, it has people picking teams designed to be able to take it out.

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I dunno, like @aeronaut63 said there’s quite a few common ‘mon that really bring the hurt to Cressalia: Scizor, Charizard, Registeel, even Typhlosion, Magnezone, or Venusaur (depending on Cress’ moveset). It’s a lot easier to find something that resists Fairy and/or Psychic than Ghost or Dragon. A lot easier to also find something that hits back for SE (whereas only one 'mon currently is able to resist all of Giratina’s fast moves and hit for SE). Just due to the typings, GiratinA is a much more centralizing 'mon than Cressalia. And Swampert kinda forces you into a box too (need either a water-, dragon-, or grass-type to wall it).

Not just any dragon. Zekrom gets destroyed by Earthquake, and Reshiram is only neutral to water, so Hydro Cannon does it in. But most Dragons do all right, resisting water and ground.

Swampert is the main fly in the ointment for me - there’s no good grass at the high levels to destroy it. In GL/UL, there’s plenty of good choices, but in ML? Groudon with Solar Beam - unneeded, as Groudon beats Swampert already. Cress with Grass Knot? Odd choice, but possibly. Virizion? Now we’re pretty far down the list for ML. Annoying.

I keep having hope for the next strong grass pokemon, and I keep getting disappointed. Arceus (grass), anyone? It will probably have Razor Leaf and Solar Beam, or Hidden Power, or Quick Attack, or some other stupid off type fast attack that destroys it’s usefulness. Uggh.