GBL S2 - Master League outlook

It might be a bit early, but with the advent of Zekrom in two weeks, it looks that we have a new Meta in ML S2, pvpoke now included the new duo and Zekrom is, more or less on par with GiratinA, the new number one.

So, what do you think? I think this will be very interesting and the whole Meta will not be that much steel anymore, we even don’t have a steel-type in the new PVPoke top 5! Dialga only #7… With Zekrom, also Groudon get’s a better chance to shine. With Togekiss and Garchomp, still two non-legendaries in the top 10, but now that we have Premier League that’s ok imo.

I guess I still stick to my Dragonite/Metagross/Groudon trio, although I might use Groudon as Leader. Of the novel trio, I won’t have enough ressources to power them all the way up this season I am afraid…

In a world with no Togekiss, probably this or put Gira-A in for Dialga or Palkia. Less steel (Melmetal) more Togekiss. Mewtwo with Psystrike and Ice Beam a possible option now with less Melmetal, can’t imagine ever seeing a Heatran now (yes I have a Masters Heatran)

In practice, unless you TMed your Groudon to have Fire Punch, you won’t see lots of Groudons, unless it’s the Nuke version. Reshirams and Zekroms won’t happen as much as you think either, unless Zekrom gets Thunder Fang or they are deliberately built for PvP. The only changes I envision is LOTS of Palkia, which basically mandates Togekiss against it.

Zekrom with DB is stronger than TF. And of course there will be no hordes of Zekroms and Reshirams, given how new they are, but especially in the higher ranks I expect quite some. And Groudons, yes, I expect a lot, it was No1 option for many TMers and some might have powered up their new Groudon to the top as well. Yep, tons of Palkia as well. So quite some changes. More Togekiss I am afraid as well, hmmm

I’m planning to get this Elite TM for Groudon as well, assuming if the CD box has one.

just picked this up on main (5th raid) and was all hype until i checked pvpoke and saw Zekrom fml lol

I dont think PvPokes is going to reflect whats actually going to happen

dialga still beats almost everything, including 3 of the top 5, Most importantly the Giratina. With regards to Zekrom, electric is just bad in masters as an offensive type and a defensive one, so its going ot be used as a dragon primarily, and we all know what eats dragons, Dialga, even with crunch and resisting IH, in the close, dialga actually still beats it (same of reshiram).

Groudon is the only real shake up, and even then its just kind of a shake up to threaten steel types. Its going to carve out a spot next to swampert and garchomp and be in competition with them


Zekrom loses hard to Dialga (farm down win with one shield) but does well against the Giratina’s. Togekiss also wins so long as it has a shield (Wild Charge REALLY hurts!) Zekrom’s big niche is as a steel killer so I compare it to Groudon. It has the resistances to the main steel moves - which is awesome, but Metagross’ Earthquake is still something to fear. Against Groudon, it’s dicey and bait dependant but has the advantage that it doesn’t fear Kyogre. Overall it’s a good fit, I reckon but it you may not see that much of it as it won’t long have been released. Season 3 could be very interesting however.

Thats more or less the same way that the fight with dialga does against the same pokemon.

It sounds good, I agree, but its rolls arent much different than what dialga and other pokemon already do, its a pokemon who has a move that thtreatens togekiss in shield senarios, beats kyogre and the nondialga dragons, but loses to dialga. ITs more or less dialga just trading a weakness to fighting but also the subsequent steel resistances.

It might work for specific teams, trying to emulate dialga, as thats what it does, but in the grand scheme of things it likely wont change masters much.

Agree with @MetagrossMaxis here, no real change other than groudon, wich is a double sword for dialga’s dominance because it can win against it, but beats steel types that tend to scare dialga in season 1. Togekiss will be the winner in the “new meta”, with zekrom as a collorfull adition as the first relevant electric type

I actually hadn’t thought about that, groudon will make it a lot easier to blanket cover Dialga’s weaknesses and counters

No, Electric is theoretically good because it murders Kyogre and Togekiss, as well as walling Steels. Unfortunately, it’s VERY easy to counter and if someone starts going supersoldier on you there’s close to nothing you can do. Same with Fire and Fighting, again supereffective against everything, but your opponent counters it 100% of the time.

You will not see as many Groudons as you think, unless:

  • Everyone is saving Elite TMs for their Groudon
  • Everyone TMs Fire Punch to it after June 20, they maybe using it on Seaking, Dewgong, Some 100iv Metagross that they were foolish enough to evolve before Community Day etc, etc, etc…
  • Someone got a 100iv from the Hoenn Challenge

It doesnt really ‘wall’ steels, since steels dont use steel moves unless they are metagross, who isn’t the best of the steel types. Dialga’s iron head damage is compensated for because dragon breath’s power.

and I wouldn’t say it ‘murders’ togekiss or kyogre. With VS, it loses over a hundred HP to both, and against togekiss, it ends with 33 HP. TS it lives with more HP, but not a lot more.

That is theoretically very bad.

What if opponent has no shields, but you do? (Or you have no shields but you can take a surf at least, assuming if it’s Raikou)

Sure, no shields it works, but theres almost nothing in masters able to get that kind of senario, on top of the best examplele for electric being good is such a lopsided match up, almost anyting would have the advantage, and most people do not play togekiss without shields, because it loses to almost everything shields down anyways.

Electric is bad, even agaisnt what its supposed to do well against, it takes a lot of damage so it not that effective agaisnt what its supposed to beat, and its outright terrible agaisnt everything else. It doesnt have the effectiveness profile to do well in masters.

Biggest takeaway…Melmetal is gonna lose to Palkia! Leadoff–closer–wherever it goes. Groudon flat out owns Melmetal. Giratina-O leadoff…good luck vs Palkia. Less Melmetal leads, more Dragonite leads, more Togekiss leads. Gira-O has some trouble, it already had some bumps bc of Dialga

Actually, Gira-O leadoffs are simply not good because it gets burnt down by Dialga or Dragonite. My favorite is usually Melmetal Leads, Metagross Leads and Togekiss.

Also I want to know how good Fire Fang Reshiram is.

Fire fangs mostly a worse dragon breath, damage DPT, lower energy, but it might be helpful agaisnt steel types, but other than that It seems worse.

You like to max and use some funny things, me, too. Maxed a Landorus and I couldn’t resist maxing a Terrakion 15/15/14 lucky BUT Fire Fang Reshiram’s claim (probably single claim) It beats Melmetal worse than any matchup I can recall…terrible vs Dialga, so it is terrible

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