Gen 5: Prediction

Given niatic’s recent track record of, well, actually making several pokemon that have potential live up to that potential, the initial movesets of Poison roserade, Electivire, Magnezone, Mamoswine, weavile, Rampardos, garchomp, Yanmega, the last minute alteration to Giratina-O’s moveset, and the move expansions of Roserade, and Honchkrow, with Moltres’ wing attack being a great addition for the Sky attack ones we already had (with the fanfavorite Aerodactyl finally getting a rock fast move to make it actually great for rock attacking), I don’t think its a stretch to assume naitic’s actually understands ‘New pokemon are good, people want them’. Even dialga, who statistically looks inferior to options like Rayquaza, can in practice pull its own weight far better than the stats can show. And thats just for raid, PvP pokemon have seen a large buff and rebalance to shift whats good and for those wanting to be the best there, new options to get.

Now, taking that one step further, gen 4 overtook many previous high standers (who for the most part, were gen 1 pokemon with the exception of the three types that didnt exist when gen 1 was originally made), and even though top attackers shifted, most shifted to another gen 1 pokemon (looking at water, switching from vaporeon to gyarados for nonlegendary water, or nongen ones were ties with gen 1 with a ‘trades X for Y’ reasoning despite many having the stats and move access to overtake gen 1). Then gen 4 happened, and the best of type shifted for a number of pokemon, who had both the stats and move access. With the tease for Gen 5, and gen 5 having many pokemon with potential, I don’t think its a stretch to suggest another power creep gen will soon be upon us.

Using the big name everyone knows, machamp. Fighting’s a high demand type, machamp the pinnacle puncher, is high demand. However, most already have them, so only newer plays really raid it, since they’d go for the best fighting type anyway, few set up players raid it for a need for better machamp (since already having many) and raids are more likely for rewards rather than the pokemon. Now assume gen 5 makes Conkeldurr better. those with machamp no longer have the supreme fighter, and given many people want to get better attackers, a better fighting type will attract even set up players. Since those looking for best fighting types, because they dont have many, will raid which ever is best, but set up players wont so long as they have the same (this of course is assuming conkeldurr’s lines a raid, but also note conkeldurr can also be a pace holder for any new attacker that tops a previous). If they are restricted to eggs, people will hatch like mad. Given how Gible and Cranidos eager people are, placing something as high value as Timburr in a 10k would make a lot of sense, as there’s been a precedent for it.

Its not like gen 5 has any shortage of potential high markers. Nonlegendaries like Archeops, Chandelure, have the potential to be high achievers, and even potentially The top achiever of both their types, while Escavalier, Haxorus, Volcarona, Conkeldurr (as stated) Hydreigon, Zoroark all have potential to be of one type (Haxorus, in particular, having an absolutely ludicrous attack stat similar to Rampardos, though slightly lower, would have Rayquaza teir damage out put due to not having the 9% nerf if given DT/OR). Now all of these pokemon are not exctly what one would say is a ‘common’ pokemon, even in the games being quite rare, with only Conkeldurr and Chandelure being somewhat common species but given niantic made Shinx, a literal route 1 pokemon from sinnoh raid/egg locked, the same could easily be done for those two. Given these pokemon have potential to be good, having the stats and main series move pools, making them top tier and locking them to eggs/raids or making them super rare wild spawns, thus eggs and raid being the best way to get them would certainly get people out spending for them (since we have seen similar for gible and cranidos). Restricting them to raids and or eggs would make sense, since if people want them, they would need to either RNG hatch/raid them slowly, or spend coins on incubators and passes.

Volcarona and Zoroark receive a slight special mention, as they have a signature move and former signature move respectively, Fiery dance and Night Daze, so even if they are released with not best movests for fire and dark, there’s still somewhat of a potential for it, like what many expect for Lucario with Aura sphere and what happened for one Steel wrecking machine, Metagross, with meteor mash. Krookodile also gets a mention, since while not naitively possessing the stats, it does get a signature move, power trip, and its sunglasses form could make for a community day not that dissimilar to Squirtle (Empoleon is also able to learn power trip, but that’s by breeding, and thus still retains signature move status).

Those were just the nonlegendaries, the legendaries also have much potential. Zekrom and both formes of Thundurus have amazing stats, three new potentially raikou/electivire topping electrics, who would shear outstat the big cat and yeti, dont even need wildcharge to be a top electric, so niantic would need to basically trash three legendaries which wouldn’t make sense when it has potential to be a high demand raid target. Reshiram’s fire status isnt as safe, since Blaziken exists, but its extra bulk can make it a dialga-like lower DPS, but more than compensating for with bulk option (Note: Dialga, Reshiram, and Zekrom all share the same stat distribution when converted to GO’s stat formula). Landorus could be a great ground with Earth power, though with no ground fast move access, I dont know how attractive niantic could make it without a new move addition. Tornadus, and most of the swords of justice with current moves dont stand out, unfortunately. Kyurem deserves a special mention here, since right now, niantic cant really make it better than Mamoswine, or at least, its base form. Black/White formes will likely completely outstat every other ice type, and potentially dragon.

That’s leaving out the signature moves, which the Tao dragons, all possess, two for zekrom and reshiram and three for kyurem, while unlikely given niantic’s withholding of signature moves from most legendaries, still is potential, especially given they could give one as a fast, and the other a charge (since kyurem’s freeze-shock and ice-burn are forme locked). With Sacred sword, Terrakion could also become a great fighting attacker, but would need a better fast move since doesnt learn counter.

So theres a lot of pokemon, that if niantic actually understands ‘better pokemon = people want them more’ could live up to said potential in a way similar to gen 4. Now of course, the issue that’s going to inevitable come up is the typical power creep complaints. What do you guys think, could niantic actually be starting to understand people go for better, stronger pokemon, and thus have made more as such, or do you think they accidentally’d themselves into gen 4’s top placers.

tl;dr powercreep much or hype much?

Gotta see the movesets. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yup.

But I feel like power creep is whats going to happen, since niantic’s been giving things specifically for pvp and raids. Look at Deoxys D, who was basically raid irrelivent in every way, then pvp, and, well, everyone knows. Niantic knows what people want, and what people want generally means money.

tl;dr - Ryan Swag already addressed literally everything in your post in his Top 10 Gen 5 article and accompanying video on YouTube.

1 Like

Who?

1 Like

Reading that and seeing signature move quiverdance on volcarona, and headsmash for rampados……thats not how signature moves are.

But I see, though the point of my post was about why it would make sense for niantic to make these pokemon good, not 'just here’s was possibly good

If that’s all your post was about you could’ve typed a single word - money.

I wanted to explain what could be good, legendaries and non, since theres more than 10

Wait what!?!? Pokémon Go has power creep!?!?

1 Like

until the start of gen 4, power creep was more or less nonexistent aside from legendaries or CDs, few permanently available pokemon overtook prior best.

1 Like

The main reason why I no longer do Machamp raids is that tier 3 solo challenges are now a joke. Despite having three perfects and three 98% ones, I would continue raiding them if it was fun.

Although my experience with the console games and anime is limited to the first two generations, I was happy to use Gardevoir, Metagross, Milotic and Salamence, alongside familiar faces while getting to know the new species. I remember looking forward to the Gen 4 release in PoGo because many old friends (Rhydon, Electabuzz, Piloswine, Togetic, Sneasel and Mukrow) had evolutions expected to shake up the meta.

With all the talk about power creep in Gen 5, what are the implications for game balance? Will later generations take us towards a meta where the only relevant species are legendaries, mega/dynamax forms and those with broken exclusive moves?

I hope they continue to give better moves to older species, which can be done in a way that entices players to acquire them. For example, Tyranitar could use a better Dark charged move.

When talking about powercreep, its not like these pomemon are going two, three DPS up the originals, in most cases its faction of a damage persecond, say BB blaziken’s DPS against soemthings 32.4 when SE, but reshiram’s best sets get it 32.6, its not getting to a rediculous thing of two or three damage up in most cases. Or even look at the curren example of electivire, its only 3% faster than raikou.

But Theres times where that has happened, see rampardos, but those are the vast minority

2 Likes

Lol besides CD moves and new legendary Pokémon being released… that’s literally the definition of power creep!!!

1 Like

The best attackers by type list before legendaries were added:
Bug: Scizor or Pinsir
Dark: Tyranitar
Dragon: Dragonite
Electric: Jolteon
Fairy: Um…Clefable?
Fighting: Machamp
Fire: Flareon
Flying: Er…Dragonite?
Ghost: Gengar
Grass: Exeggutor or Venusaur
Ground: Rhydon
Ice: Lapras or Jynx
Normal: Blissey (since this type is only good for defence)
Poison: Muk (or Gengar)
Psychic: Alakazam or Espeon
Rock: Golem
Steel: Scizor
Water: Vaporeon

With the introduction of Gen 1 and 2 legendaries, the only changes were Psychic (Mewtwo), Electric (Raikou) and Fire (Moltres/Entei). Legendaries are supposed to be stronger, but they were not broken.

When Gen 3 was released, two types saw new non-legendary champions: Fairy (Gardevoir) and Steel (Metagross). The weather trio became the undisputed best at Dragon and Flying (Rayquaza), Ground (Groudon) and Water (Kyogre) offence respectively. As a result, among 18 types, 7 were led by a legendary and 5 were led by a Gen 3 species.

This was when CD moves debuted. However, their impact on the meta was initially limited, as Venusaur and Metagross were already best-in-type with their normal moves, while Dragonite’s CD move was arguably worse.

Bug: Scizor/Pinsir
Dark: Tyranitar
Dragon: Rayquaza (L, G3)
Electric: Raikou (L)
Fairy: Gardevoir (G3)
Fighting: Machamp
Fire: Moltres (L)
Flying: Rayquaza (L)
Ghost: Gengar
Grass: Venusaur (CD)
Ground: Groudon (L, G3)
Ice: Lapras/Jynx/Articuno
Normal: Blissey
Poison: Muk (or Gengar)
Psychic: Mewtwo (L)
Rock: Tyranitar (CD)
Steel: Metagross (CD, G3)
Water: Kyogre (L, G3)

Giratina-O was the only Gen 4 legendary to get an optimal moveset, with which it became the top Ghost attacker. What makes power creep more noticeable in Gen 4 is how many non-legendaries became best-in-type (Rampardos by a mile and Roserade leading two types), even overtaking legendaries from previous generations in the case of Mamoswine (Ice) and Honchkrow (Flying). Electivire also has higher DPS than Raikou and Blaziken has higher DPS than Moltres, though in both cases the legendaries retain their crown due to significantly more bulk (likewise for Tyranitar versus Weavile).

Bug: Scizor
Dark: Tyranitar
Dragon: Rayquaza (L)
Electric: Raikou (L) followed by Electivire (G4)
Fairy: Gardevoir
Fighting: Machamp
Fire: Moltres (L) followed by Blaziken (CD)
Flying: Honchkrow (G4)
Ghost: Giratina (L, G4)
Grass: Roserade (G4)
Ground: Groudon (L)
Ice: Mamoswine (G4)
Normal: Blissey
Poison: Roserade (G4)
Psychic: Mewtwo (L)
Rock: Rampardos (G4)
Steel: Metagross (CD)
Water: Kyogre (L)

Once Darkrai and Shaymin are released, they are likely to become best in type.

5 Likes

Best in type normal was snorlax, and currently is now ambipom if I recall correctly.

And when metagross was first released, it initially tied with scizor as steel

But this is largely my point, even with legendaries added, gen 4’s powercreep is still much greater than other gens nonlegendary did.

Going to update the list from Gen 4 with Gen 5 assuming optimal movesets. The power-creep could be very notable with 8 new throne winners. I’ve put 5th Gen changes in bold.

Bug: Volcarona, followed by Genesect
Dark: Tyranitar / Darkrai
Dragon: Kyurem Black/White. Dethrones Rayquaza as best generalist with more DPS and bulk
Electric: Thundurus-Therian, followed by Zekrom
Fairy: Gardevoir
Fighting: Conkeldurr
Fire: Reshiram
Flying: Archeops if a nerf like Defeatist isn’t implemented, else Moltres
Ghost: Giratina (L, G4)
Grass: Roserade (G4)
Ground: Landorus-Therian, then Excadrill
Ice: Mamoswine
Normal: Meloetta, then Braviary
Poison: Roserade (G4)
Psychic: Mewtwo (L)
Rock: Rampardos (G4)
Steel: Metagross (CD)
Water: Kyogre (L)

1 Like

I’d be interested to see how Niantic implements Defeatist (if they plan to). Since we have stat reductions in PvP it should be possible in a raid. The only question is if Niantic can code the stat reduction to trigger based on health rather than a move.

I suspect they will just split the difference for Archeops. If he’s at 100% power half the time, and 50% the other half in the main series games, then perhaps they’ll just give him 75% all of the time in PoGo.

Lol. Niantic introduced Shedinja without explaining why it’s so damn frail, or any connection to the other members of its evolution family. I wouldn’t expect much.

As for the power creep, yes Gen 5 was interesting. But then Gen 6 gave us Megas, which are the epitome of power creep. It’ll be another bump in the ceiling in Go.

1 Like