Gilgamesh vs Prototype Gilgamesh

#1

Do you prefer the original version of Gilgamesh (the Prototype one), or the version they ultimately went with and popularized via several games and shows, most notably Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero?
Feel free to comment why you prefer one or the other.

Personally I prefer the Prototype version for a variety of reasons. That version is more of a warrior-king, so his arrogance/ego ties into a sort of competitiveness with other strong heroes, which I consider slightly better than the other versionā€™s ego. Another reason being his design, he actually has a bow while also being able to use it as two swords or tonfa knives. Also his portals have fixed positions around his body rather than being able to appear anywhere as if heā€™s a caster of some sort.

Another main reason is I think FSN Gilgamesh was made nonsensically OP. My reasoning in is the summary below because it got fairly long. This would also be interesting to discuss if anyone wants to.

Summary

On the basis of being the oldest known hero, heā€™s been given the prototype version of the NPs of every hero due to collecting weapons in life and other myths taking inspiration from his. The problem is the myth thing is hard to prove, as there could be another story or event both myths got the inspiration from rather than copying from his, and even in that case it wouldnā€™t make sense for him to have access to items of other mythologiesā€™ deities (such as the the Helm of Hades) or weapons given to heroes by said deities (such as Harpe), as well as weapons crafted later in history/myth. In addition, some heroes have NPs based on their actions/life, so it wouldnā€™t make sense for Gilgamesh to be able to have that (such as Hercā€™s Nine Lives), and other technique or conceptual NPs donā€™t make sense to be copied, though it seems Gil hasnā€™t demonstrated whether he can or not in some of those cases. With Gil Prototype itā€™s left unclear what the weapons are that he fires, which Iā€™m fine with. I donā€™t have a problem with his large treasury, except when it causes widespread lore problems with other servants.

  • FSN/FZ Gilgamesh
  • Prototype Gilgamesh

0 voters

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#2

I think Proto Gil has really strong appeal, and overall he makes more sense for a compelling character that is competing against other heroes.

That said, our Gilā€™s incredibly amount of BS makes it crystal clear heā€™s the oldest and strongest hero, no questions asked. Even though heā€™s also called a Servant, itā€™s like he belongs to a completely different realm, thatā€™s unreachable for anyone else.

But itā€™s natural for our perception on them to be twisted ni some ways. Even if theyā€™re very similar, FSN Gil has had much more development over the years, being really familiar to us by now.
For some, however, the novelty that Proto Gil represents could be seen as a boon.

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#3

I prefer the Gil who blatantly exploits his Kitchen Sink EX skill. If youā€™re so powerful, why waste time dancing around and swinging your blade at people when you can summon portals of golden energy that rain Noble Phantasm-equivalent armaments on their heads?

Besides, if Gil starts using an actual bow, we might mistake him for a Berserker or something.

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#4

Thatā€™s fair, but why not do both at the same time? Besides, is it truly besting someone in strength if you just drop a nuke on them? I appreciate the warrior mentality of a proper fight more than the mentality of disposing of something because it annoys you.

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#5

I donā€™t know Proto Gil so it wouldnā€™t be fair for me to vote. I also havenā€™t read all the entirety of the Nasuverse that includes Tsukihime? and maybe two other works? From what Iā€™ve come across and seen from other conversations the Nasuverse seems to have a few really broken characters in terms of power levels and within the universe Gilgamesh may not even be in the top 5. I believe the top 5 are a mix of both protagonists and antagonists. Iā€™ve always assumed that Gilgamesh might be a servant that appears in other works where his power levels wouldnā€™t seem so out of place.

In terms of his character, I like his egotistical due to it being different from other characters. Cu Chulainn has a warrior mentality. Diarmuid has a noble warrior mentality. Iskander has a bit of it within the conqueror mentality. And with all the servants in Fgo you can find a lot of ā€˜warrior mentalityā€™ types.

The villainous egotistical villain that can actually back it up and is not just cast aside at the end of the arc they are introduced is a rare type. And even rare for such a type to be given good characteristics among evil ones too. This, to me, makes Gilgamesh stand out as unique. Heā€™s the bully you canā€™t stand, but can actually back it up and the story allows him to back it up.

Even though the fandom has sort over saturated his exposure, I think he still works in the story as near invincible threat that the heroes have to solve, like a puzzle, to beat him (similar to Heracles). He works as a villain but one that doesnā€™t overstay his part to the main characters. I havenā€™t seen HF (no spoilers, iā€™ll get to it sometime), but things might be reversed there and he gets the cathartic comeuppance everyone likes to see him get.

#6

I refuse to vote because I do love them both. :weary:

I was going to write something that I hated about them but nothing. Maybe Gilgamesh killing off Illya but even that seems right at another POV

Well, if itā€™s any help. I love his Caster self 20x more.

#7

Iā€™d love to see another version of adult Gil, so no problem there.

But no, I personally donā€™t care about the warrior aspect; Iā€™m a combat pragmatist and donā€™t believe in proper fights outside of sporting events.

I prefer magical warfare in my fiction and like it better that ā€œArcherā€ Gil exploits his massive mana capacity for his primary fighting style.

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#8

Itā€™s more of an egotistical warrior mentality, to put it in movie reference terms: My name is Gilgamesh, you arenā€™t allowed to be stronger than me, prepare to die. And he actually enjoys fighting, while the FSN one seems bored or cowardly bullying from afar in most of his appearances that Iā€™ve seen (Zero/UBW). Similar mentality as Iskandar in enjoying the craziness that is the Holy Grail War and the ability to fight other heroes. You could always just look him up on a wiki for yourself, though there is a short animation of the Prototype story, or at least the Arthur/Gil fight, so that would be nice to track down sometime and see. Maybe theyā€™ll animate the full war someday, as there are many differences from F/SN. Herc is probably the most similar across both versions. We donā€™t even know what the caster or assassin were in that war, other than the assassin is likely one of the 19 hassans since Iā€™m pretty sure the Fuyuki Grail Wars always summon hassans as assassins under normal circumstances.

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#9

If Prototype isnā€™t a long animation or story Iā€™ll check it out.

Iā€™m not against a new Gil appearing a servant (as a Gil fan the more the better!). As Arthur is from Prototype I feel Gil Proto will be brought in some day. Looking at his picture I think he would fit the warrior king mentality more than the Gil weā€™ve known.

Gilgamesh seems to have a certain complexity to him that I donā€™t think is easy to write with his flaws. Or rather his flaws take up more screen time. Zero I think delves into a bit of what he likes and Fate CCC also shows a bit of a different side imo (granted Gilgamesh Extra could be considered a different servant I guess).

Personally I think the way Gilgamesh is might partially be the fans fault. Heā€™s an antagonist so him being a bully is par the course. While I donā€™t think heā€™s cowardly heā€™s egotistical, bullying, looks down on everyone, a sadist since he seems to enjoy people suffering, specifically mental suffering from the choices people make and I believe in FSN the anime was possessive of Saber. So you know, possibly sexual harassing too (which when you add all this up might not be that far off from Shinji).

Overall I donā€™t think he was created to have such a gigantic fanbase like he does. (Like Iskandar you can see was made to be a magnet for fans). He may have been always meant to disappear at the end of the Fate storylines. But because he gained such a giant fanbase they canā€™t leave him out of Fate stuff either. I think the trope is called Draco in Leather Pants these days.

#10

Thatā€™s partially why I made a case against the way his strength is set up, as some people like him due to just how strong he is, which while he does definitely deserve to be quite strong, there are different ways you can make a strong character. I personally think his Prototype form better shows how to make a crazy strong character without revolving the whole lore around him to make him more powerful to the point of being broken. Personality-wise FSN Gil makes a good antagonist though.

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#11

Fate/Prototype is basically just a short proof of concept showing Nasuā€™s original plan for Fate/stay night.

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#12

As much as I really want to see Proto Gil in action (anine series or movie), I kinda get why Fate/Prototype hasnā€™t been made into proper anime for so long now. Proto-Arthur and Proto-Cu both got their FGO counterpart, but seeing there isnā€™t any sign of Proto-Gil anytime soon (and Gil fest in JP has over too!) I donā€™t think Proto-Gil is really that popular in JP and Iā€™m going to assume why based on my opinion, so feel free to explain yours too.

Fate/Prototype was obviously made for female audience and all of the main boys (Arthur, Cu, Gil, Perseus) has the stereotype of otoge bishounen. I have nothing against otoge or bishounen, if anything, I like seeing pretty boys (why do you think I start playing FGO?) but when it comes to story-wise, IMHO (as heterosexual female too), they sound kinda boring, probably as boring as eroge, if not more. Proto-Gil, from what I saw in the short movie, is basically the more intense version of Diarmuid, and we have had enough of that. FSN/FZ Gil, on the other hand, is a lot more alluring with his gigantic ego because we all like bad boys and the Gil we know now took it up to the eleven (Oh, well, Iā€™m kinda infatuated with Gil/Saber pairing so my argument prolly has something to do with my preference) (and Iā€™m probably a closet maso).

And lores aside, the Gil we know now wouldnā€™t be caught dead holding and swinging weapon to fight (Ea doesnā€™t count because he doesnā€™t swing it around) and that itself makes a strong characteristic that we all love.

So, the conclusion is, I would like to see Proto-Gil in FGO (and I will whale for him, but first, I have to try to get the original one too), but I still prefer the original Gil as staple for any Gilā€™s incarnation because, once again, we all love bad boys :relieved:

#13

Well, Prototype Gil and two versions of Perseus (Rider and Lancer because Hollow Ataraxia) are on a list of leaked servants, so if thatā€™s accurate like the Saber Astolfo we got then weā€™ll get them in FGO eventually.

#14

I prefer Charlemagne and Archimedes first, since they got their own stories in Extella and LINK. But seeing Charlemagne is basically just a goofier version of Arthur, Iā€™m not sureā€¦

And god, please make Proto Gil a ā˜†4 so that I could get him with free SR ticket someday. I mean, itā€™s only fair after Proto-Arthur gets ā˜†5, and Proto-Cu a ā˜†3.

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#15

Yeah, thereā€™s still a fair amount from other series that we donā€™t have in FGO yet, I hope we get each of them eventually.

#16

I half agree with you. I donā€™t mind him being to the point as almost broken and the way heā€™s showcased, which I guess weā€™ll have to agree and disagree on. This is because as the fate universe has expanded with GO, even though heā€™s one of the faces of the series, like Artoria, he doesnā€™t show up as much anymore and you could say there are others as powerful or even stronger now (maybe Abigail and her Outer Gods or King Hassan and there have been chats for a while about Karna being on par or even stronger I think).

But you are correct, his initial appearances has gained him a lot of fans due to either a) being a power fantasy or b) being hot with abs for days and the bad boy complex. This isnā€™t too different from Frieza and Aizen from DBZ and Bleach. Frieza was done well, Aizen was mismanaged to the point no one cared in the end. Gil I think is on a tightrope in between at this point where he still has a lot of fans, but can easily turn into Fateā€™s Aizen and become hated by everyone.

I also agree that, his lore does make things or future things funky. I know Gil stated he didnā€™t have Heraclesā€™s God Hand/Nine Lives which I assume means he only has NPs that are physical weapons (so he wouldnā€™t be able to use Vladā€™s conception of impalement from my assumptions). But the fact that his background is having the original of every other servantā€™s Np sounds cool, but doesnā€™t make much sense.

He is the oldest legend, but there is no proof that his legend inspired every other legend. Considering every culture has their own set of deities shows that there is a common or natural human inclination to certain concepts (I forget what the term for this is called), but itā€™s not due to a prehistoric social/cultural osmosis from his legend. In a way this makes part of his background sound mary sueish to me. As more servants are added it becomes more problematic. So either heā€™s a liar, he doesnā€™t know the limits of his ability, or heā€™s always capable of going full mary sue at any time.

I think youā€™re correct they should have left some of this as a mystery instead of explaining it. Of course if someone has a degree or phd in the sociology and history of culture could weigh in, that could help.

Sorry if this too long. Itā€™s an interesting conversation. :fgo_dshy:

#17

Thanks for the link. That was an interesting short. I can see where a lot of the ideas come from. Good to see Lancer is still being the treated the same way like he usually isā€¦:fgo_pout:

@Meta_Cat after looking at Prototype, Proto Gil is pretty cool. I see a little bit of Ishtar and Emiya in him with his moves. I could see him being added to FGO in a similar way Vlad Extra is. Where Proto Gil is ā€˜Gil the Warriorā€™ before he became ā€˜Gil the Tyrantā€™. With Proto you could say you had the 4 stages of Gilā€™s life, maybe.

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#18

Well, I know FSN Gil has some NPs from Indian mythology (including the flying ship), though he notably doesnā€™t have Karnaā€™s because there isnā€™t a record of Karna using that NP, so thatā€™s an interesting detail. Not sure if thereā€™s any link from Babylonian mythology though. And then he has some from Celtic mythology, notably Cuā€™s and Fergusā€™ NPs, once again, no idea if thereā€™s any link or what the origin of those weapons are. I wouldā€™ve written off the helm of Hades because it was in Prisma Illya where he also has a hot springs NP, but he also has Harpe, a weapon given to Perseus by Hermes and then given back to Hermes, so it seems that theyā€™re fine taking items from the Greek pantheon for some reason. And then another notable one is Lu Buā€™s spear, but Iā€™m pretty sure that isnā€™t a mythological weapon, so thatā€™s probably fine even if it doesnā€™t make much sense.

#19

Sounds about right. Thatā€™s the problem I find with F/SN Gilgamesh. His only weakness is his hubris because everything else is answered by ā€œHe pulls something from the Gate of Babylon to counter.ā€

He literally has a Noble Phantasm (Sha Naqba Imuru) that allows him to ā€œdiscern heavily concealed truths with a single glanceā€ (including True Names and NPs), ā€œseeing through a piece of the truth of the demise of human historyā€, "see[ing] the possibilities of various parallel worlds should he so chooses", and otherwise just unveil any information to him; down to something as simple as knowing the right move in a game of chess.

I can only best describe it as his mental Gate of Babylon, (aka plot-armor explained) because he can just use S.N.I. to counter anything.

#20

mfw goldieā€™s got Ultra Instinct Jeanne on an np he can pull out like one of many delicious m&mā€™s

rip my girl,

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