Gilgamesh vs Prototype Gilgamesh

But does that matter? Fate is full of servants who are fictional and mythical rather than actual historical figures. Even ones that did exist are often genderbent or made so ridiculous (in either appearance or personality) that they clearly never existed in that way.

Gilgamesh is the type of character that, as more servants are introduced, his Power Ranking will most likely decrease despite having all these in-story broken skills. The original routes, from what I’ve seen, specifically UBW, set him as a foil to Shirou. He is the final boss ‘Servant Killer’ no Heroic Spirit can match while Shirou ‘the talentless human’ is able to defeat him with what is basically a weaker version of the Gate of Babylon. They both wield weapons but are not masters of them etc. This works in the original story, the prequel and whatever happens in the sequel Hollow Ataraxia. It’s all fine and dandy to say he has all their weapons and is the greatest when we weren’t ever going to meet half the heroes and legends in existence. But what happens when this type of character has to interact with those hundreds of heroes he wasn’t initially made to interact with?

This can even be seen with the Gate of Babylon. He is supposed to have every hero’s weapon because he was the first hero with the first legend and thus the original (interestingly the wiki handwaves this paradox and basically uses a form of Bellisario’s Maxim. I also feel ‘all other legends being derived from him’ is a Nasuverse thing. It’s the earliest great work of literature but I doubt every piece old literature comes from it). Yet all of a sudden he’s missing weapons. He doesn’t have God Hand for reasons, he has none of Karna’s main weapons (interesting coincidence he doesn’t have any of the weapons against the one servant fans love to pit him against), and is surprised by Avalon’s existence. As more servants are introduced there will be more ‘loopholes’ as to why Gil doesn’t have their NP. Even now, does Gil have Ozy’s Sphinx in his treasure vault? Probably not. Or it’s there but it can’t be used for some eye rolling reason.

This is going to slowly drop his power overall. Matched with his pride and ego, which may as well be some type psychological disorder, he does have a few weaknesses. His treasury doesn’t hold concepts, items or tech made by a ‘new human race’ whatever that means in the Nasuverse and extraterrestrial intelligence. After playing Salem I have feeling Outer Gods won’t be cowering in fear of him either. Also some servant abilities are able to counter his. Unlimited Blade Works seems to partially be his weakness and Knight of Owner is a good counter (although the wiki says Lancelot was only able to keep up with Gate of Babylon due to the Berserker stat increase). I’m sure as newer servants come out there will be some, who in theory can counter him.

In terms of progression I’m starting to see him similar to Pokemon’s Mewtwo. Considerably above and beyond anything else when first introduced, but as newer characters come out their level decreases. Still in the top 10, but not so far ahead of the rest of the pack. I remember coming across a page of power levels and when it came to the Nasuverse there were a few ahead of him such as a Mercurian spider with no concept of death, Arcueid, I think, in some full out vampire mode, and some boy with death note or King Hassan eyes.

He might not be as OP as some think, but from the series we’ve seen, only his mental weaknesses are shown or stressed more. I don’t think there have been situations created yet where some of these other weaknesses can be exploited or a stronger character can take the stage. Well perhaps in Babylonia. That and the fandom probably over hypes his strength similar to how Brolly was pre DB Super.

@EXV-BB, ya know I read this skill on Kid Gil and I was like ‘wtf is this?? What type of Yami Yugi heart of the cards bull :underage:t is this?? And you’re not using this??’ lol. S.N.I I think was made for insurance. Either a Deus Ex Machina if the writer corner’s himself, if they dropped Gil’s level too much with newer servants and need to rapidly put him back in the top 10 or if they just want him to look dominant in a situation.

It’s funny about the chess part because in Fate Extra CCC he has a chess game with a villain and is the only that can beat her, when you, Rin Extra, Gawain and others failed. Knowing how broken this is, because this is more broken than Professor X from X-men it will probably always be used for mundane things like winning a hand at poker to just so Gil can always be ‘I’m better than you’. I don’t think it will ever come up in a serious situation unless the writer really put himself in a position with no out.

The only reason Shirou stands a chance against Gil, even briefly, is because his niche counters Gil’s MO so well and because of Gil’s personality defects.

Unfortunately for him, he still can’t actually beat Gil, at least if we’re looking at UBW as an example. Gil’s mana capacity is insurmountable even for the majority of Servants, and Ea alone is overpowered to a story-breaking degree.

It’s kind of sad that Gil can play pattycake and phone it in for an entire fight, get pissy and finally start to get serious a little too late, lose his arm, and still casually win just by virtue of being the only one left with more juice.

Oh, that’s not what I meant by that. I was saying that we don’t know if he is truly the oldest hero, he’s just the oldest one we know of so far, and it’s hard to prove that other myths took inspiration from his or whether they developed separately in the similar way that other developments in history have happened completely separate from each other while being similar.

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He pulls something out of the Gate of Babylon and counters.

The funny thing about that is the fan comparison-rivalry between the two was definitely sparked from Nasu himself saying that Karna is on par with Gilgamesh.

This is exactly what that absurd skill is for. S.N.I. may as well just be renamed to “Bad Writing 101” and description changed to, “It allows Gil to overcome any obstacle the writer(s) want, whenever they can’t explain a plothole. Paired with Gate of Babylon, Bad Writing 101 also allows fans to fall back on it when in a “Gil VS” debate.”

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Tbf, while S.N.I might be at the top or near top of broken skills they may have thought of a loophole or some other way to go about the ability already. If it ever comes up, which I doubt due to Gil’s own personality.

Considering there are so many servants with near broken abilities under normal circumstances but they are still defeated or brought down in some way or form (sometimes in satisfying ways, sometimes not so satisfying). Achilles is said to be on Karna’s level and thus in that elite Gil tier and he was managed to be brought down. Karna’s main reason for being defeated was due to Achilles NP. Karna also has an ability that’s basically the ultimate lie detector and Amakusa managed to bypass that by only dealing with his master and not servant. Vlad is able to make stakes pop out from the inside of people’s bodies and Cu has the reverse causality instant death spear that never seems able to kill anything.

So I think Nasu has thought of some way to stop or negate that ability beyond Gil choosing not to use it, but whether that reason or not will be a satisfying one is up in the air. Knowing about that ability now I think it should have been a plot point during part 1 with the incineration of humanity. I don’t think it comes up, but maybe CasGil used it? If not maybe sort of like Sheba in Salem.

It also seems like a trait that the strongest servants (and perhaps the strongest characters in the Nasuverse) have game breaking abilities but are held back due to personality deficiencies. Tamamo for instant has a few abilities that could rise to the level of Op (I think one of her abilities could raise the dead) but she seals off and holds back on some abilities due to pass trauma.

if I say prototype, does that finally release him in jp next year?

He comes out the same year as Half-Life 3.

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I mean at least he’s already known to exist, via the early game datamine

half-life 3 on the other hand… is probably actually cancelled, by this point

I really don’t see him coming in the foreseeable future (or before FGO folds up), I mean, they just passed Gilfest’s opportunity and…

Or probably they’re just waiting for the right time to induce the player’s whaling tendencies for the hot new incarnation of Gil… :thinking:

fate/prototype collab, hopefully

we literally already know he exists in the game files, so it’d be a damn waste not to use him

better yet, a commenoration for Prototype anime! because we need more bishounen like one of those Otoge! :fgo_umu:

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Considering he’s not the only Prototype servant in the leaked servants, that’s likely. Would be nice if they pair it with making a Prototype anime, as it would be cool to see the alternate versions of the popular servants in action (plus it’d be interesting to see who they have as caster and assassin), but that’s probably too much to hope for.

but we already have the prototype anime

That’s just the proof of concept, not the full story. Mostly a bunch of animations tossed together so that it’s hard to tell exactly what’s going on except for the beginning and the Arthur/Proto Gil battle. Pretty sure Fragments of Silver has an anime, so they really should animate Prototype since the stories of those two are connected.

(Edit) Oh, it’s just a light novel, not an anime. Then both should get animated.

what do you think the strikethrough indicates? :fgo_deadinside:

The paragraph in Archer Gilgamesh’s TYPE MOON wikia page seems to imply that he has already used Sha Naqba Imuru a number of times in F/SN and F/Z.

Achilles allowed himself to be killed. The thing with Achilles and Karna is they both have tangible, static weaknesses unlike the fickleness of Gilgamesh’s hubris.

I chalk that up to poor writing, but it has produced a timeless meme for the Fate community.

In my opinion, it is implied that Caster Gilgamesh used Sha Naqba Imuru to learn about the Incineration of Humanity, Chaldea’s goals, and predict Chaldea’s arrival during the Babylonia arc.

I’m not too sure about that. Achilles’ weakness is his heel. Karna’s weakness is the loss of his armor when he uses Vasavi Shakti and his exceptionally high mana consumption. Cu’s weakness is his terribly low LUCK stat (and the meme of him always dying). Vlad’s weakness is his heavy reliance on Kazıklı Bei.

(Though, it can be said that Karna’s reason(s) for using Vasavi Shakti can be tied to his honorable and warrior nature, thus making his weakness tied to a personality deficiency.)

More on topic, I wish for a (well-written & animated) Fate/Prototype anime. We’re so close… We have novels, manga, an animated proof of concept, and (soon) drama CDs.

I’d love to see Proto Gil interact and maybe even face off against normal Gil. I imagine that’d be an interesting bout.

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I personally prefer the Gilgamesh we got In FSN/FZ doubly so if we want to count his appearance in CCC and CasGil.

Nothing against prototype Gilgamesh but I feel like he lacks the depth that the Gil we know (though that could primarily be to the unfinished nature of prototype) and I think he’s design is a bit lacking when compared to OG gils.

I think we know who the real best Gil is though.

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I’ve decided that what I actually want is a 5* Gilgamesh Caster with CasGil personality, a DPS-focused kit, and an obscene ATK stat to offset the dreaded Caster class modifier.

What we’ll probably get is a 4* welfare Gil in some Extra class and with a wonky kit that instantly and irrevocably marginalizes him.

while I really want a welfare Gil, I don’t think DW would be so generous to give us just that. I mean, the only welfare Artoria is the Santa Alter Lily (all of OG Artoria’s alt mashed into one), so welfare Gil must be something like Proto Shota Alter Gil or something? And it’s prolly gonna be an AoE Moon Cancer or something, lol

I mean, if Artoria is the main female cash cow, then Gil would be their main male cash cow, so they have to make sure every player whale for any of his incarnation

edit: sorry, kinda forgot there’s welfare Artoria Lily, but my point still stand… I think :stuck_out_tongue: