Hall of Forms - Naesala - Atk/Spd Rein vs. Menace

I am torn. Here’s what I’m working with so far with Naesala:

Atk/Def Catch
Spd/Def Near Trace
Atk/Spd Rein

I now have the option to replace the rein with Atk/Spd Menace, and I am torn. The synergy with Atk/Def Catch is great. But the prevalence of penalty-nulling skills has me wondering whether I might be better off keeping the Rein.

I could seriously use some advice.



Rein over menace always because reins are always active and entirely unavoidable


Do you have the rein fodder? Go menace.

If you don’t: keep.


In-combat debuffs and such stack infinitely, so the Rein actually increases his maximum potential, where the Menace doesn’t. Rein also cannot be countered, while, as you said, debuffs and buffs can both be nullified–or even reversed, and it’s difficult to purposefully not activate a Menace if it’s working against you. The power of Menace is that it allows him to be more self-sufficient, which can be beneficial, but you can get everything you get from a Menace with support units. Temari, for instance, has the Atk/Spd debuff covered, and the buffs can come from Tactics or such.


Thanks for the great, helpful feedback. I really appreciate it, and I’m keeping the Rein!


Menace over Rein. Rein doesn’t proc the Catch skill, meaning that Naesala loses out on his self-sufficiency and becomes more dependent on allies, reducing his reusability in other teams. Plus, Naesala can always use the boost to his ATK that comes with Menace, but not with Rein. And, since you have Trace, you don’t have to worry about the generic “but what about teammates” argument for whoever you’re fighting.

I’m a fan of Menace over Rein as well. The total benefit (though conditional) is greater.

You end up with a 12 point delta on speed (which stacks with his PRF, and activates Catch).

You also get a +6 atk/def/res effectively, with a 12 point delta on attack (which can help with Heavy Blade Procs if running those builds).

While it is conditional, it’s one of the easiest condition to meet in the game. Now, if you plan to use him with a specific team to provide support, sure the rein is nice to have, but honestly, he’s going to be alone more often than not.

1 Like

It’s really a matter of consistency versus payoff

Rein gives a smaller effect but there is no way to stop it

Menace gives a bigger effect but it is shut down by Lulls, Dulls, Unity, and some very popular inheritables (so much Deck Swabber and Flowing Lance, and to a lesser extent Steadfast Lance/Steadfast Axe)

For a PvE setting you’ll get more out of the Menace, but for PvP I would go Rein, IMO, especially since other units would most likely be providing buffs and debuffs for you in that setting