Hard charge 3T farming - Arts & (some) Buster calcs

After all the Koyanskaya system numbers flew around, I thought I’d compile a comparison of what hard charged DPS looks like at near max investment prior to lv120.

Why? Eh, I got some comments from someone that “160k is nothing” and I think maybe some people don’t have a perspective for how AoE stacks up without SuperBG, or conflate ST numbers with AoE… or maybe don’t consider the number they see without class advantage.

Because NA gets the Arts domination era next, I was only going to do it for Arts 50% chargers to show how everyone stacks up at minroll, however I decided to chuck DKS Spishtar in to show how she compares to her Arts Superscope self, and Artoria because why not.

Melusine/AA I didn’t bother with as they’re overkill in 5CE.

–Reason for Superscope comparison only:–

  • Generally speaking everyone dominates in 5CE with BG/SuperBG on any 3/3/x.
  • I wasn’t really interested in running calcs for what 6CE on 3/3/x looks like because I’d have to consider refund for everyone and whether Tama is a better plug for extra damage.
  • 6CE 1/1/1 is super duper niche and has what, Archuria who can refund off NP alone?
  • It’s adjacent to the new buster looping system

Sadly all my lovely text formatting is going to be nuked here atm so this is gonna look ugly!


–CE/Loop design–
Castoria Atk buffs wave 2 onwards as they have the 30% charge attached
Reines plugs in wave 2
W2 charge = 30+30+20+20
W3 charge = 50+30+20

–Servant parameters–
Lv100, NP5, 1k Fou, 2k atk from CE

Overcharge/NP stacks/NP interludes/Passives all correctly accounted for!


–Superscope Muramasa farming–
58k wave 1 min
119k wave 2 min, 139k w/ plug atk or 145k w/ mana burst
134k wave 3 min, 157k w/ plug atk or 162k w/ mana burst

–Superscope Summer Kiara farming–
65k wave 1 min
118k wave 2 min, 138k w/ plugatk
173k wave 3 min (rank 1 debuff), 199k w/ plugatk

–Superscope Spishtar farming–
82k wave 1 min
160k wave 2 min, 184k w/ plugatk or 183k w/ 1T NP steroid
183k wave 3 min, 211k w/ plugatk or 206k w/ 1T NP steroid

–Koyanskaya version (50% CE, Tenkihime)–
93k wave 1 min
181k wave 2 min, 211k w/ plugatk
224k wave 3 min, 257k w/ plugatk

*Pops battery w1, gets 1 Vitch charge wave 2 + plug Reines
*Gets to use 1T 20% NP both waves 2 & 3
*Stacks 3T 20% atk on wave 3
*Has 15% NP from Tenkihime

–Artoria 50% CE farming (Tenkihime, starts with 20% append)–
77k wave 1 min
163k wave 2 min, 194k w/ plugatk
181k wave 3 min, 212k w/ plugatk

*1x Koyanskaya charge w2, plugged out for Reines
*Gets to stack 18% atk on wave 3, reuses mana burst/battery wave 3

–Superscope Kiara farming–
(1.5x as Vs Cavalry/Rulers)
88k wave 1 min
158k wave 2 min, 185k w/ plugatk or def down
185k wave 3 min w/ plugatk or def down, 212k w/ both

–Superscope Anastasia farming–
51k wave 1 min
86k wave 2 min, 99k w/ plugatk or 106k w/ mystic eyes
86k wave 3 min, 99k w/ plugatk or 106k w/ mystic eyes

–Superscope Summer Melt farming–
51k wave 1 min
91k wave 2 min, 107k w/ plugatk
117k wave 3 min, 132k w/ plugatk

–Lolivinci 50% CE farming (Tenkihime)–
84k wave 1 min
124k wave 2 min, 147k w/ plugatk
190k wave 3 min (2x NP1 Castoria + 300% overcharge)

*Reines in wave 1 for charge, plugs for Castoria before NP
*Only 1 Artoria atk buff in W2; Vinci pops NP dmg up, 1x full Artoria charge
*Presumes 9% refund for wave 3
*Presumes NP1 Castoria
*Presumes no Arts chains


Thanks for this apples-apples comparison, as most don’t quantify with damage numbers.

  • Kiara really does solve the Cavalry triangle, topping Anastasia, though a fair bit down from Lolivinci.
  • Spishtar really is the answer to both Arts and Buster, really impressive.

While I won’t have the luck to NP5 Spishtar as my DPS, I’ll still be pulling with the understanding that the numbers scale down proportionally for NP1+, so she’s still really, really good from a gameplay perspective.

Keep in mind that Kiara can kill assassins, where Lolivinci has 0.5 damage.
Against Casters/Assassins/Riders/Rulers she will be hitting 150-180k wave 2, and 180-210k wave 3.

Yeah Lolivinci’s neutral damage is solid thanks to her getting to hold a 50% CE and bring double Castoria NP through her team charge, and she can basically run anywhere that doesn’t have a big 160k+ wave 2. With RNG you can get w2 above 160k - you just need an arts chain or for a Castoria to use one arts card in wave 1 before your NP.

Sadly yeah Arts wise only Spishtar can reliably break bulky mobs in wave 2/3 with superscope. However in Buster she’s near the top - but not the apex.

  • Melusine can hard charge loop with superBG (but ofc is 0.5 vs sabers), and…
  • AA absolutely annihilates with a double stack of his anti-evil from wave 2 onwards. His wave 3 is over 245-290k with the same conditions… in a mystical land where he doesn’t get his 1.5X damage that is! He hits 367k-436k wave 3. (Oberon in place of Reines)

AA’s only negative is it’s possible for a high magic resist saber to not take the buster down debuff, which nerfs his damage substantially. (However Ishtar/Gil can both hard charge loop too and are pretty common pulls due to their sheer number of reruns.)

Honestly I expect they will start throwing 4 enemy waves or some new gameplay type out soon given how much they seem to dislike letting 3T runs roam unhindered in the most rewarding nodes.

As for pull plans - NP2 is about 80% of NP5 damage. NP2 is a 1.33 multiplier, NP5 is 1.66.
You can always Gold Fou her to add on average 10k damage per wave (going by memory/feeling). Gfou is close to the same as NP2 going to NP3 as I recall.


I’m assuming that we’ll see more events with Extra Enemy CEs, like Halloween. You can 3T 3/3/3 without any extras, or you can 8T a 7/7/5 with max extras. Players can choose whether they want fast 3T looping vs more drops/AP.

I 7 or 8T looped Lolivinci with double Tama in the summer 3 CQ (spammed Tama NP to bring skills straight back off cd or close), where there’s a will there’s a way :fgo_bbsmile:


Thank you for the calculations. Is there any chance you could add Habetrot to the list? Based on MMM’s review she should be somewhat competitive and much easier to get to NP5 status than limited servants.

Sure, I’ll add her later.

The numbers will be notably lower than Lolivinci - Vinci in kit with this rotation has 26% Arts turn 1, 31% arts/30% NP by turn 2, and 36% arts/30% NP turn 3 (extra arts from overcharge). Habetrot has 30%/30%, but has lower base atk, doesn’t get guaranteed 2x castoria NP and can’t spread her charge out over multiple turns.

Habetrot I will probably calc with a 50% charge CE and let her w1 damage take a hit from the lack of 30% arts to give a best case w2/3 number. I think her sexiest contribution is being 0CE/0charge requiring Arash with her append.

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Thanks! I didn’t expect her to be hitting near the top, nor scale with consecutive NPs as hard as some of the others that have 3T buffs on NPs. Still as an effective welfare, if she can get even middling damage in that pack, it’ll be quite nice.

Obviously she also has amazing versatility on top of that damage, so can do all kinds of fun things with her other than looping.

Yeah, realistically I think you’re going to bring her for casters, weak wave 1s or nodes without chonga enemies.

I haven’t checked her numbers yet but if I’m not mistaken she doesn’t have the Arash/CG multipliers as her sacrifice is on skill, so her performance will be something like or maybe slightly better than Summer Melt I imagine.