I never thought I would consider maxing out a 84% legendary

So far, I have maxed 26 mons and only two are lower than 96%: a shiny 91% Raikou and a 93% SD Tyranitar (which I now regret having acquired two perfect purified Larvitars).

I was a F2P player during Moltres raid day, so my best SA Moltres is only 84%. After second charged moves were introduced, Moltres with SA+OH became a top gym attacker (Metagross is an elite and very common defender, while Grass, Bug and Fighting types are also popular). It is also a top counter to Grass Rocket Grunts (RL is an OP move).

For months, I have been trying to become Lucky Friends with my only Best Friend with a SA Moltres, but to no avail. I have a 98% Litwick and 200 candy, but no Unova Stone.

The Regis, Cobalion and Arlo have increased the need for Fire attackers. With with WA in its movepool (and many FTMs to spare), Moltres will also be the top counter to Virizion (which I severely lack counters for). If Shaymin and Genesect become raid bosses…

Stardust is not a problem; I have over three million saved up for Gen 5. What holds me back? Rare Candy, Reshiram and principled fear. 282 Rare Candy (182 to max out + 100 to unlock second charged move) is a lot. I have almost 500, which appears enough…until Giratina-O returns (my best is also 84%) and Landorus-T, Reshiram and Zekrom arrive.

If Moltres with SA becomes obtainable again or I eventually get that Lucky Friend, I may really regret maxing out an 84% one. On the other hand, if neither happens, Reshiram only comes after its best use has passed and I have equally back luck with it, I may regret never really using Moltres. In RBY, Moltres only came before the Elite Four and its typing was poor against them.

I’d rather wait. That Moltres just isn’t worth maxing.

Trading with a lucky friend could also land you a “poor” Pokémon (it could become a 12/12/12 two star 80%IV). If you need it now you should power it up to the level you need (if you don’t need it you can wait some more).

Except if you need it to win the raids… :wink:

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For Genesect, you should have oodles of serviceable fire types: Blaziken, Flareon, Infernape after this weekend, the list goes on. You won’t need them maxed to be effective. These also work for Cobalion; regis have come and gone; and there are other options vs Team Rocket.

Level your Moltres up to 30 and use it as a flying counter vs Virizion, along with other SA users like Honchkrow and Unfezant. Hardly any resources lost up to 30, and you can wait to see if another opportunity for a better IV, SA Moltres presents itself.

No need to have so much regret over Pokémon Go. Your options don’t have to be so black-and-white either (even if this is 5th Gen).

So uh… tell me again why it needs to get maxed? I agree hands-down with @Papa_Gunz - there’s no reason you have to max your Moltres just to use it for Virizion. I would say it’s worth investing in for Sky Attack options, but honestly don’t make a mistake and invest in something that isn’t really what you NEED. Save resources, play smart.

Don’t worry. I’ve sent a 73 iv research breakthrough moltres to lv35 before because I can’t get a better one plus I didn’t have Moltres at that time.

So you rattle off all the reasons you need a Sky Attack Moltres but question powering it up because of IVs and FOMO. If you have a use for it now, USE IT! People really need to stop obsessing over IVs and worrying about getting a better one later.


Go for it. Don’t worry about maxing unless you are short-manning raids but giving that 2nd attack and powering up to say lvl30 sounds like a solid investment (especially since you have plenty of resources).

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I’m going to go mostly with the wind here and say don’t max it out. Considering you need 182 candy to max it out, yours is already lvl 30, which is quite fine to perform in raids. The 100 candy investment for 2nd attack is ok IMO.

Now if you plan on shortmanning Cobalion and lvl 30 is not enough, how about striking a middle ground and power it up to lvl 35? Assuming 13 ATK (13/12/13 would be 84%), lvl 35 is the last breakpoint for fire spin Moltres against Cobalion. Costs 64 candy. You may see a difference in performance between lvl 30 and 35 because of this (7% damage increase on the fast move), but very little difference between lvl 35 and 40.

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Aaaaaand lvl 35 is also a bulkpoint (but not the last) for both zen headbutt and metal claw, how about that!

Heck, I was motivated by this case and I wanted proof of y assumptions, so I crunched some numbers. I used GoBattleSim, party of 6 copies of a fire spin / overheat Moltres, IVs 13/12/13 A/D/S, against Cobalion. No friendship, neutral weather. For lvl 30, 35 and 40, I ran 50 simulations, averaged. Here are the results:
Lvl 30: DPS 18.54, TDO 33.14%
Lvl 35: DPS 20.50, TDO 37.66%
Lvl 40: DPS 20.20, TDO 38.98%

However, these numbers are wrong if you raid with friendship bonus, since breakpoints will not be the same. But I suppose there will still be a key level, like lvl 35 here, to perform almost like the top while costing much less resources - which is reasonable for a 84% that may be outclassed soon I guess…

Really, IVs are such a minor part of the equation. The only reason to hold off on powering up a useful three-star legendary is if it’s currently in rotation and you might get a better one soon - as in, before you would ever put it to good use. Otherwise, the 84% that you use for three years is better than the 98% that you only use for two years.

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If you don’t want to max out an 84% pokemon for whatever reason, then just don’t.

Just get a high lvl whatever IV% wild fire type pokemon, (like torchic), and evolve it. It would get the job done, and you won’t spend neither dust or rare candies…

When Groudon first came out I had a hardcore group raiding everyday and it was boosted so I have a lot of 70s-80s IV but 3k CP I use all the time

Here is my lowest IV maxed out Pokémon. Good old TTar!

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I’ve beat Arlo 4 times and encountered Sierra once, Moltres was not a factor in fighting Arlo in my challenges. I maxed a shiny 14/11/14 Sky Attack no plans for the other move, I already have 2 fire level 35 Moltres. IMO some mainstream PvP meta-monsters should be maxed and probably 2nd move bought: especially Giratina(s), Dialga. Maybe my Arlo encounters swayed respect for the rocket battles, a good number of players don’t have the capacity/capability right now…but I need/want the bulky Pokemon that can survive enough to burn their (his) shields.

I’d say hold out for now, against Arlo, i’ve found blast burn Charizard to be much better than moltres (dragon claw for stunlocking, and blastburn for well, nuking).

If you dont have blast burn Charizard, I can see the issue, but I would advise against maxing a moltres and double moving to SA/OH, mostly as said, reshiram plain and simple has a known set, you have litwick candies and a good Wick and likely unova stones are going to become more common soon just as sinnoh ones were. I maxed a hundo raikou, 230 somethng candies, didnt want to max it (only did to shut some people up who were pestering me as to why I wasnt) because we had zekrom’s set by then, and never used it, i’d say save the rares for moltres and the other legendaries.