Ibuki-Douji and the Buster Saber playing field

I thought I’d put up a brief overview of how she stacks up in Class relative to Artoria & post-buff Altera.

I’m trying to avoid this becoming a wall of text, so it’s short factual statements & separated out into headings. You should be able to easily come to your own conclusions on their actual efficacy.

You can quickly see their card damage multipliers in different circumstances & what their supported NP damage looks like, and with the references to Merlin/Waver/Skadi hopefully the values are relatable.

If there’s a demand for it I could make something small to show how Muramasa’s card damage stacks up with Buster Sabers. 100% crit on non-Buster isn’t a 1:1 conversion to crit buffs on a Buster Servant; Arts/Quick need more crit. I only added him for the NP comparison.

Card deck

Deck hitcounts/generation stats

Ibuki
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0.78% NP gain per hit

Artoria
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0.86% NP gain per hit

Altera
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0.84% NP gain per hit

Bullet pointed observations
  • Her entire deck has better generation stats
  • Due to BBB deck nature, you might not see this in practice as B chains have no gen bonuses
  • Mighty or Quick bonuses on Ibuki will be more valuable than on Artoria/Altera
  • Star bonus will only really manifest via stargen buffs e.g. Merlin Illusion, Miss Crane
  • NP benefits from this too, 4 hits vs 1 hit Artoria/Altera

Card damage considerations

Bullet pointed observations
  • Ibuki’s damage is going to be 13% higher than Artoria’s before even considering passives
  • Ibuki only has 2.9% more atk than Altera, making the gap between their raw output trivial
  • As a trade-off for losing to the other two, 2/3 turns Artoria’s entire deck is Buster
    =more consistent gorilla chains than Ibuki

What might help put the multipliers below into perspective is how much popular Servants enhance card crits by:
-Hero Creation+Dreamlike Charisma is a 360% Buster crit damage amp
-Waver is a 195% crit damage amp
-DSS is a 600-960% Quick crit damage amp

Card damage output (raw kit)

Buff output totals

Ibuki
298% buster crit damage (3 hits)
210% crit damage (3 hits)

213% buster crit (4th hit+)
150% crit damage (4th hit+)

Artoria
177% buster crit damage (1 turn)
118% crit damage (all turns)

Altera
169% crit damage (all turns)

Bullet pointed observations
  • It’s clear from these numbers that Ibuki has the highest crit damage almost all the time - Altera’s QAA are a smidge over Ibuki’s QA after 4 hits. Artoria is always substantially behind.

Card damage output (DKS turn 1)

Buff output totals

Ibuki
847% buster crit damage (3 hits)
210% crit damage (3 hits)

680% buster crit (4th hit+)
150% crit damage (4th hit+)

Artoria
590% buster crit damage (1 turn only)
472% buster crit damage (no dragon core)
118% crit damage

Altera
598% buster crit damage
169% crit damage

Bullet pointed observations
  • For turn 1 the result is similar to raw, with Ibuki’s lead on buster damage dropping from 1.68x at peak to about 1.4x Artoria/Altera’s best

Card damage output (DKS cdr stacking)

Buff output totals

Ibuki
-Turn 2-
952% buster crit damage (3 hits)
210% crit damage (3 hits)

680% buster crit (4th hit+)
150% crit damage (4th hit+)

-Turn 3-
1468% buster crit damage (all stacked)
360% crit damage (all stacked)

1142% buster crit damage (no s1 stack)
280% crit damage (no s1 stack)

Artoria
-Turns 2-3-
680% buster crit damage (1 turn)
544% buster crit damage (no dragon core)
136% crit damage

Altera
-Turns 2-3-
832% buster crit damage
256% crit damage

Bullet pointed observations
  • Here Ibuki maintains a smaller lead on buster damage, particularly relative to Altera who is hitting 87% the buff total without a hit count limit.
  • Turn 3 Ibuki pulls ahead on all cards even when on a single stack of s1, at 1.76x Altera busters in ideal world, and 1.37x with 40% atk

-Card damage conclusions-

Bullet pointed observations
  • Ibuki pulls notably ahead in turns 1/3 on card damage
  • If only drawing 1 Buster, a [Dragon Core] Artoria with any 2 cards will outdamage turns 1-2
  • Altera busters after her NP’s def down only 9% weaker than Ibuki’s, other cards 37% stronger*
  • Raw kit wise Ibuki cards hit harder all turns
  • Ibuki likely swings harder most of the time due to more Busters than Altera
  • Artoria’s ‘BBBBB’ deck means she will always hit hard when you draw 2 of her cards, but her buff total can only win against a scuffed Altera/Ibuki hand in turns 1-2.
  • Artoria with 2 Busters barely beats out Ibuki/Altera with 1 Buster/1 any other card.

*list provided above is kit only, no NP debuffs

NP damage
-All Servants lv90, 1k Fou, lv100 Cranking/Ocean Flyer, DKSO/DCSO support

Ibuki

Artoria

-[Dragon Core] turns 1+2
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-[Dragon Core] turns 2+3
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Altera

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Muramasa

Offensive utility

Kit comparison

Ibuki
-Ignore invincible & defence on NP
Artoria
-None
Altera
-Can remove defensive buffs, twice in DKS
-120% resistance to offensive stat lowering

Bullet pointed observations
  • Ibuki’s native ignore on NP is better than Altera versus unremovable buffs
  • Altera’s buff strip will come ahead only if an enemy has a [Card Resistance Up] or [NP Resistance Up] buff which is removable.
  • Altera can neg damage down effects from typical Servant skills; Buster comps need to carry Castoria or Laikou to cleanse typically. May allow for more unga bunga versus enemies like Douman.
  • Rating with own kit only Ibuki is much more effective than Altera, particularly as pre-Koyan Altera can only buff strip once & has no battery
  • Artoria = :catcry:

Defensive utility

Kit comparison

Ibuki
-30% defence 3 turns, permanent 200 damace cut
-1t NP seal
Artoria
-None
Altera
-3k self heal

Bullet pointed observations
  • Ibuki wins this category handily, Altera’s 3k self-heal is unlikely to be pressed as an emergency button as it’s on her NP battery/crit up, whereas soft-mitigation is useful at full HP
  • In a DKS team Ibuki’s soft-mitigation will double up to 60% turns 2-3, anyone who has run double Waver will have an idea how well this works (note that brings 1k damage cut, where Ibuki has 200)
  • While Ibuki ‘wins’ here, she still has no hard defence against NP, and even in DKS needs an external buff from Waver or Koyan of Darkness to definitely tank an NP
  • NP seal is better than nothing for teamplay, but is liable for being negged by break bar gimmicks
  • Artoria = :catcry:

Looping capability/requirements

Breakdown

-Pre-DKS Artoria/Mordred/Ibuki need 100 starting NP and 3 Servants who charge 50 NP.
-With Arash used you can squeeze a Merlin in to get actual card damage up.

Ibuki
-50 starting NP and DKS/Waver or better

Artoria
-100 starting NP and DKS/Atlas MC
-50 starting NP and DKS/Waver or better

Altera
-50 starting NP and DKS/Oberon

Muramasa
-No CE and DCS/2004 MC (easy content)
-No CE and DCS/Waver (easy content)
-50 starting NP and DCS/Oberon (hard content)
-80-100 starting NP and DCS/Waver (hard content)

Note that only 1 event since Koyanskaya released has lacked a starting NP CE welfare.

Compatibility with Lancer 90++
Can they brute force 90++ Lancers including ST damage checks?
Yes if you invest enough. They can use a Black Grail or event pmod CE and card draw to make up for lack of battery. None will have a guaranteed triloop kill unless it’s an event like Summer 7, with pmod on a starting NP CE.

Advantages of each Servant

Ibuki
-Can be fielded with any 30 team charge Servant as a secondary DPS
-This could be with a Castoria/Oberon team buffing a Servant like Vlad, with a double Oberon team or a team using Koyanskaya of Darkness; she has more comp freedom as a single wave clear
-She has pmod vs Undead, which could one day be a niche target/wave in 90++

Artoria
-She offers a charisma for your main DPS, which is a missing buff type in KoyanLight/Oberon or double Oberon teams
-Her in kit burst damage is higher than Altera/Ibuki, meaning she needs less investment to work as a one big wave clear in 90++, and might reach a damage check they don’t
-Any hand with her is a guaranteed gorilla chain, reducing RNG

Altera
-Her 20% tactics is a missing buff type for Arts/Quick teams if mixing with them as 2nd DPS, and Summer Skadi is quite compatible with Buster secondary DPS
-Her star bomb is consistent damage stretch for her if you draw a card as she has a universal gather. This is mostly of benefit if mixing with an Arts team

Disadvantages of each Servant

Ibuki
-No team buffs, making the damage check on your ST or traitmod Servant higher
-Big star bomb, but can’t guarantee she or another Servant will suck them up. Only a problem when supporting an Arts 2-3DPS team as Quick/Buster have additional star bombs & Buster star gathers.
-Unstacked burst damage isn’t very high, you will need NP4-5 to hit 120k consistently with drop bonus as 2nd DPS (this is reduced right down to NP2 in S.Skadi/Oberon teams)

Artoria
-Smaller star bomb with no gather, same deal as above
-30% battery means as a secondary DPS she’s demanding 2x aoe chargers, limiting what ST focused teams she can slot into without starting NP

Altera
-Small star bomb is always sucked up by Altera unless using a bigger star absorb on other DPS
-30% battery means as a secondary DPS she’s demanding 2x aoe chargers, limiting what ST focused teams she can slot into without starting NP
-Needs NP4-5 for assist damage checks if supporting a Koyan/Oberon or Koyami/Oberon team (NP2-3 for Oberon/S.Skadi)


Conclusio-
There is no conclusion here, as the goal is to just put up a comparison to let you see/evaluate the value of the limited Saber(s) to gen pool offerings you might already have, or yet luck into.


It would probably be easier to get a feel for what those crit damage multipliers look like if I gave a pair of example chains for each character. Hopefully the raw “it multiplies by this %” tells you enough about how their cards stack up for now.

I’d have to do this manually with the damage formula to account for mighty chains, extra card up from appends, and card specific crit. This is why I didn’t give example chains upfront.

7 Likes

Is this just like how much damage Crits do? Artoria has no in-kit crit buffs, passive or active

Same question for Altera. She has some crit on her upgraded skill but it isn’t all turns it would be for 3/5 turns.

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I never realised Altera was thay strong.

Really glad she spooked.

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100% = baseline, 1x buff total
118% = 1.18x multiplier to your crit damage

Crit damage is atk x card x crit+pmod. Artoria has 18% atk up.

Unfortunately it will take time to see this strength, as her battery and crit buffs are 2 collab events away, but her NP damage will stack up as advertised (even if she can’t loop yet at Koyan’s release).

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Just wanted to say that comparison is excellent, but Ibuki’s legs make me question existence of god

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Buster AoE knight classes have the fiercest competition gameplay wise among their servants.

For farming purposes Artoria is IMO a better unit than ibuki at similar NP levels. Altera will be the best of the 3 in 2 years (she is very average atm) and Ibuki will be the third best option.

HOWEVER, NP2 Ibuki pretty much guarantees a 3 turn clear on lancer/zerker 90+ nodes once vitch and Oberon arrive. As shown by cards, her carding is better than Artoria or Altera and the gains are as well, specially with the arrival of mighty chains. As an added bonus, she pierces invul and defense on NP which her competition can’t.

Basically she is a beast and her not being top in her class is a testament to how bonkers dragon core is and how many times Altera will get buffed.

As for Muramasa, it’s a much trickier comparison. He needs higher NPs when the node os very irregular bit has access to BG otherwise. Plus his kit is great too so pick your poison.

I reiterate, NP1 Ibuki already does great damage. NP2 with vitch and Oberon sets you for any 90+ lancer node out there.

As for 90++, forget them they require very specific units at max investment to 3 turn with 6 CEs, sometimes even with 5 CEs the requirements may be extremely stringent.

Well, the surprising conclusion if you look at the numbers is she isn’t clearly so.

  • She beats Ibuki on NP damage by ~20% and in turn narrowly loses on crits. Her QAA cards will crit harder but Ibuki’s B cards will crit a little harder to a lot harder and she has 1 more of them.
  • Both in a BG setup (CQs) Altera’s lead diminishes.
  • In 90++ they need the same investment as advantage 1 wave clears (using Halloween wave 2 as the benchmark)
  • Artoria remains the best NP user in farming scenarios, both as main farmer and an assist

I put up Ibuki’s damage with s1 expired and s1 at only 1 stack in turn 3 to compare a worst case “I brave chained turn 1” scenario.

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Not sure if fan of thighs or advocate of calf training.

Tbf, Saber Ibuki and Altera (in 2 years) have equivalent usefulness in farning with Koyan and Oberon. Their damage difference doesn’t really matter since they should all clear 90+ at NP2.

As for CQ potential, they all have their pros and cons.

Still, merely from a convenience pov older players should have easier access to Saber or Altera, in which case Ibuki is a love pick (I know it is for me).

If you look at my table NP3 Ibuki with lv10 decisive battle is the minimum 0 RNG all 90+ (neutral) clear. Altera/Artoria need NP2, with the latter over the line enough that attribute disadvantage won’t stop her.

Thankfully Ibuki’s attribute disadvantage is Man, which Koyan has something to say about.

Artoria

Part of why I put the comparison up is for an actual point of reference on their damage output.

The variable facecard damage is why I put up Ibuki’s crit multipliers for all of her possible states, so you can see how she actually measures up with buffed Altera.

Artoria is there mostly to showcase how much Koyan carries that ‘BBBBB’ deck; due to RNG she’s probably beating Altera in most brave chains as Altera needs NPAB to match Artoria’s NPBB, but only has 2 Busters.

I don’t consider any of them omnifarmers but rather lancer farmers.

Artoria is amazing win dragon core sure, but she does not have invul Pierce or defense Pierce. I still think they all are situationally good depending on the CQ gimmicks.

Yea I Know I’m just summarizing what you posted. It is funny how busted DKSO is. The damage numbers at low NP levels already insane

Artoria has nothing at all for CQs, hence why I made the joke bullet point under utility.

NP1 is enough for Lancers unless unsupported.

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I can see Artoria Blitz a CQ with three NP BB chains (that double dragon core with Koyan is insane).

NP1 can fall short on some 90+ where wave 1 has a Big enemy as well as waves 2 or 3 (I think the monster crisis 90+ had something like that?) That’s why I mentioned NP2 bir otherwise yea, NP1 should be enough on most cases.

At that point any Servant can do it, as you’re talking about a blitz with a Servant with no utility supported by a Servant with no utility.

Unless your plan is to Chen Gong DKS into Merlin/Castoria in turn 1, in which case: no NPBB chain there, and any Servant is quite safe in the turtle shell.

This was the structure for Valentine’s with Casters (where you could pre-farm powermod up for your favourite Servants).

Deep Sea Crisis had that structure on Lancers yes, but Artoria is 91k minimum at NP1, which is over 180k with advantage.
You can 0RNG that even with trait disadvantage at NP1 by using a MC buff. You won’t need it for turn 2-3 anyway with advantage.

The other two definitely need the MC buff turn 1 for this scenario.

OG Seiba for love :fgo_jeannu: I’m just glad she gets the farming job done. Wouldn’t like her if I had just budget to pick one saber that does farming + show up in CQs, but glad that I can sub someone else for CQ work (waiting for a friend NP5 steroid Shirou) or maybe far future 90++ nodes if needed

Of note is that when corrupting mud rain comes out OG Seiba outdamages Altera with it thanks to it being a mini black grail with 2400 attack at MLB, which is way better than any hybrid CE in terms of damage output. At least for just farming purposes where you don’t care about pierce invuln or whatever else.

Artoria already outdamages on NP for farming so it’s not really a game changer unless you want to try 5CEing 90++ with her.

It’s a thing that CE can do for 3 Servants but I didn’t include it in my tables because everyone has the farming welfare CEs, but a brand new gen pool CE with no rate up when the gen pool has like 5 more additions to it? I haven’t even pulled 1 copy of Witchcraft in I don’t know how much SQ since Olympus.

Thank you so much for this excellently thought out presentation.

It was particularly meaningful to me because I have a well developed Altera and she’s waifu. So now it’s confirmed I don’t need to pull for Ibuki, whose art I kind of dislike anyway.

3 Likes

You never “need” to pull for any attacker anyway. Even if a Servant is the best at the job, 4th/8th etc still get it done; and you shouldn’t get someone you dislike for performance.

There are always other Servants but only so much SQ.

Enjoy Altera’s time in the sun when it finally comes!

6 Likes

This is specially true now with 90++ nodes. The time omnifarmers could dominate all high difficulty farming is gone. Omnifarmers with high investment can still clear 90+ bit not all 90++.

Having a diverse roster seems more important now which is a good thing imo.

So now more than before you should roll your favorite attackera without being too constrained by the meta.