Is 3T farming technically turning FGO into a puzzle game?

Think about it. RPG combat is about resource and threat management on the fly. You pick which targets to focus on, when to use skills to maximize your damage output of survivability, and react to your enemies’ actions in order to complete the encounter.

However, when you are 3T farming, you are not doing any of that. Instead you have a giant equation, with NP gauges, Craft Essences and Servants on one end, and enemy health pools and class composition on the other, and you are solving it where the time taken to beat the node always equals to 3, without your enemies even having the opportunity to act.

That’s not an RPG, that’s a puzzle you solve. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad thing, but I find it kind of funny that the most efficient way to play the game is to treat it as if it was of a completely different genre.

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Other RPGs have farming. They also have people trying to figure out the easiest ways to farm specific drops.
This doesn’t make any of the games into puzzle games.

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I mean, this is half the fun of making those lotto sheets.

I like solving puzzles.

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Kind of irrelevant. We are not talking about any other game, but FGO, and here, 3T strategies are literally about solving a complex equation. Sure, there are a ton of different way to do it depending on what puzzle pieces the individual players have access to, but at the end of the day, the goal is to completely remove randomness from the picture and end up with a formula where turns taken=3.

You were just making comparisons to other RPGs though, so how is what I said “irrelevant”?

Relevant remark, actually boss rush playstyle is a puzzle metagame but a bit more complex.
I also noticed that in a game called Xenoblade Chronicles X where high end boss rush tend to become puzzle metagame: The idea is to create a build for your avatar to take on tyrants/bosses 1v1. Once the build is completed, the fight itself is actually trival.

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No, I was outlining, in an extremely generic way, how most RPG combat systems work, including FGO’s under most circumstances. It was co invoke a contrast between the usual way of playing the game (e.g.: when you are fighting a story boss or a CQ, where you have to constantly re-evaluate your tactics mid-fight based on the enemy’s actions and the roll of the dice) and 3T farming (where you already “solved” the equation and the actual battle could as well be completely automated).

Huh, I actually like that term; it describes what I meant pretty well. That said, while I don’t doubt such puzzle metagame exists in other games where the RNG can be completely circumvented, I wasn’t contrasting FGO with any other such games.

Everything is a puzzle if you twist the definition enough, just most of the time you already have the solution.

So to preserve the definition of words I’m gonna say no it is not turning Into a puzzle game just because an aspect of the game can be defined as a puzzle, or puzzling.

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Well, the thing that save FGO from become the puzzle game you mentioned is that nothing force you to play the 3T puzzle metagame. Metagames are players defined games in the game, so nothing bad will happen if you decide to not play the metagame (at least not directly). FGO won’t punish you if you can’t 3T your dailies or your event runs.

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I agree. How to effectively and efficiently farm usually is one. Like what Node is best and what Combo will get you through it quickly to maximize the use of your time and AP.

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Around June or so of last year, I had amassed enough key resources (I think the last piece of the puzzle was my first Kscope so that I could 1T the first wave most of the time with Arash). And since then, I think I enjoy the game less, frankly. Simple daily farming is pretty boring as except for Lancer days, it’s rote with no thought involved. Sure, I could do it without Arash, and facecard wave 1, but the thought that I could 1T it makes that no longer fun.

And then when it comes to event farming, the odds that I can 3T it are pretty low as I lack the SSRs that usually enable it, and I don’t enjoy farming enough to run with half bonuses so that I might be able to, though I’d have to run maybe twice as many. So, I’m irked about that as well.

Sure, a good deal of this is psychological, but it just feels less enjoyable now. Or maybe I’m just getting burnt out. Or maybe both.

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I just do some logic thinks, so if RNG decided to screw me over, I can lessens the pain a little.

I like that the same Servants, no matter how powerful, aren’t always the very best solution to each node or challenge. At the same time, there are many viable solutions to virtually every situation.

Rather than looking at each Servant purely as a stat stick, I now ask myself how I could make use of their strengths.

E.g. I ignored my Penth for some time because I have a lvl 100 NP2 Cu Alter, but I eventually realized that Penth worked in a different way and enabled specific farming comps that simply wouldn’t function with another ST zerker without a battery. Even if I had Zerkertoki, I’d still use her for those comps because of her party cost and team utility.

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let me as you this then:

do you enjoy spending 5-10 turns completing 1 single free quest, or would you rather take the least amount of time it takes to complete a free quest and move on to the next thing as fast as possible?

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Maybe among high level players, but in general I don’t think so. I any game you’ll find enthusiast who will take it up to another level that most won’t do.

In FF7 there used to be contests on who can beat Emerald Weapon the fastest. FF8 was who can beat the game at the lowest level by abusing the Junction System. Enthusiasts in Catherine managed to take a single player puzzle game and make it into PvP competition on who can do the fastest runs. Persona 3 someone came up with a step by step guide to get every social link in one play through. No doubt someone found a way to pull this off in Persona 4 & 5, if possible. And in the fighting game field you’ll find players who come up with basically OTK combos that take down the entire lifebar no matter how ludicrous it is. Yugioh is a constant minefield of new cards coming out and then high level players finding new FTK and OTK strategies with them.

But when you get to mid level players, they may know of these things but do not or cannot try them for whatever reason. And then you have low level players who may not even know such things exist. I’ve met a casual player or two in fgo who would think clearing an entire lotto shop would be a trial that not many do. But you come on this website and others and its like ‘You ONLY did 10 boxes??? You’re not trying’ with people scoring box amounts into the 60s and higher.

High level players who have already mastered a game tend to find another level to test their skills. For Fgo it probably originated as a QoL thing at first before becoming a way in testing your puzzle solving skills as well as your ability to gather the resources needed to enable the solution. But for most of the playerbase I think they are just happy getting happy getting the prized items and servant of the event and beating the story of the event.

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I don’t know how you want to define a puzzle game, but FGO has always rewarded people who can make good use out of game information either in the form of easier farming (3T farming) or cheesing/countering CQs.

If you do look at it this way however, pretty much everything in life can be made easier by knowing what you are doing, it is not something exclusive to FGO or even games in general.

The saying ‘knowledge is power’ doesn’t come out of nowhere.

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Yes… Yes, they did… Relatively quickly, too. Granted the Confidants in P5 weren’t as hard as Social Links in P4, which weren’t as hard as P3.

In regards to the thread topic… I feel the CQs are actually designed to be puzzle-like in execution, because they’re generally different than any other quest you run into. Like this last one, Doki Doki Alter Club. You had Arash as a Caster (with a 5 turn charge, and charge gain), Arjuna as an Assassin (with 3 turn charge), Jalter as her normal Avenger self, and then Brynhildr as a Berserker on the back line. All of the other Servants gave Jalter a buff while on the field that couldn’t be removed. There were multiple ways to approach this, tbh, especially when you consider the specific mechanics of the fight.

First of all, no matter what you do, Arash is going to die once he gets full charge.
Secondly, none of the Servants were of the Knight classes (meaning Alter Egos could actually be useful).

I’m not sure about anyone else, but I personally borrowed a lvl 100 max skill Melt and tried to set things up so that my team would focus on Arjuna (with things in place to make it through his NP), and then use Merlin to put invuln on everyone on Arash’s turn. …Unfortunately for me… One of my Servants got taken out before Arjuna’s NP and Merlin was sent out to the field early. Which might not have been too big a problem… Except he got hit with insta-death, even though he shouldn’t have taken damage… :expressionless:

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I was kind of disappointed that the recent CQ was of the kind where strategy aside from common sense wasn’t terribly important if you could just overpower the enemies.

No really special gimmick, just party strength and composition vs. RNG.

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It was actually the first Challenge Quest I worked up the nerve to try. I kinda agree that I was rather disappointed that I won by “brute forcing it” instead of actually coming out on top due to my strategy. I mean… Herc by himself took out two of them. Jalter ended up dying to Tomoe’s NP3 nuke, but Tomoe was also almost dead. (Her Guts had triggered the prior turn.)

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I activate my noble phantasm, turbo tetris tetromino

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