"Is Heian-Kyo Pickup 2 Summon worth rolling?” - Assessment

Guts is for piercing, and his NP has a HoT so they should be restored a decent amount even if he dies. Plus he still has that NP seal to help control the enemy NP turn or prevent a break bar counterattack.

Depends on the Kiara. Bodhisattva? Debuff prevention isn’t too big a deal and you mostly want to stay topped off, Jeanne’s (and/or Nightingale’s) NP are enough to keep you going. I even trimmed 1 true staller for my Kiara and did it with Tamamo/Kiara/Merlin.

Whip-only meanwhile is so tough it’s hard to even recommend a pre-Castoria stall/healing comp. She’ll grind them down with NP and star removal.

Full gauge Kama I didn’t think was especially persistent even at full gauge as it’s just the charm.

In the edge cases where debuffs are too fast to keep up with, it’s usually easier to build a ‘gotta go fast’ team, as you still have the NP/crits to contend with if trying to stall it out.

Most of the best-known stall cores are a Servant whose NP debuff clears anyway (i.e. Jeanne, Nightingale, Castoria), and the white vessel CC/x times immunity are usually enough to keep them going. I’d even say that such a team is probably using the Atlas MC as well to reduce RNG of stuns and get key skills/NPs back faster. The lack of soft mitigation or hard survival isn’t great for these teams. Even my team mentioned above had value from (Alter Ego) Kiara - NP denial and buff removal - that mattered more than preventing some RNG debuffs.

TL;D: She might be better at her niche but she’s not exclusively capable of enabling dealing with those niche scenarios. The alternatives are typically good enough & able to do other things.

Certainly you have people like Mamie in particular building teams around Medea Lily, but as Gou said the big drawback is she’s so niche you need to work around her usually. If you happen to have her that’s fine, likewise if your tools are limited she’s certainly a good choice if you lack the ability to deal with debuffs.

But she’s not so good at her niche, and her niche comes up too little, for it to be notably better than Servants like Nightingale (Santa) & Asclepius who have more rounded supportive kits and are free or easier to get (Asclepius is always in Caster class banners & CBC). Not to mention all the Bodhisattva/Salvation friend Castorias out there.

Now if you’re a new player who wants to do Shimousa without command seal scumming every story locked fight? She’s useful if you don’t have one of the other options, although I still wouldn’t suggest rolling for her as that SQ could go towards someone you will definitely continue to use like Muramasa. If she were on banner with a more generically useful SSR it’d be easier to say she’s a decent bonus.

Asclepius is an easier sell if he’s on banner because he’s 3 star and should cost much less on average.

I’m glad Asclepius doesn’t put guts on himself. The sooner he’s off the field, the better.

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:feh_dimitrisalute:

Most 5* star support are better then Lily as a whole, same for Asclepius. Of course it’s easier to build stall teams with the likes of Merlin, Tamamo, Jeanne then Asclepius/Lily.

Asclepius also has more diverse kit that would give him a role in many more boss fights than Lily, which means for new players he’s a better roll choice, especially given his rarity. No arguments here.

However, there are cases, certain rare boss fights, where Lily’s strengths over Asclepius places her as better choice in that fight. Obviously, if you have Merlin/Tamamo/Nightingale/Jeanne they are top team contenders. But if you can only borrow them, and instead have access to both Lily and Asclepius…

Kiara - mature beast one at least - Lily’s burst healing post NP outstrips Asclepius’, and debuff resist that wont get eaten by periodic debuffs helps against stuns. Buff removal resist also helps save low health teammate or just to keep buffs through NP, and more health means more likely to survive.

Kama - clearing debuffs frequently is essential, and debuff resistance will stop more debuffs then an immunity spent on the first face card.

Dont get me wrong, Asclepius is still a solid choice there. Np seal to synch/delay nps, guts as a last ditch, debuff removal to counter stuns are still very useful in these fights. They are also not mandatory at all. Its just that these kinds of fights place Lily as an equal if not a better choice given lack of great support.

His NP counteracting is better then Lily’s, but NP seal can only delay by 1 turn, and Hot+guts at thier peak leaves the team with 4-5k health after enemy NP, which is potentially one crit/2 hits away from another death. Better then nothing, i would rather not rely on it as a strategy and leave the NP guarding to someone else.

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I love theorycrafting as much as the next person, and by all means keep at it if anyone wants to indulge, but debating Medea L vs. Asclepius in FGO is kind of like comparing the merits of different brands of bandaids that live in an ancient first aid kit under your sink and might never see the light of day.

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I’ve had good reason to field Asclepius a few times for certain EQs and such. I’m pretty sure he was in one of my full gauge Kama teams. The utility he offers is very wide-ranging anti-gimmick, and importantly, on very few Servants. Especially at 3 star cost.

Similar reason as to why Murasaki is a great early pull for a DPS.

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Medea Lily is from a different era of FGO where they thought increased healing for one ally needed a 8 turn cool down because it would be too OP. Healing is useful but you need to do more than healing to stay relevant and she doesn’t have that.

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It’s kinda swings and roundabouts but my feeling is that Asclepius fits into more teams. Yes you can leave every other role to other dedicated Servants - but having more ability to deny the boss isn’t suddenly less valuable.

He doubles up as being able to offer gimmick prevention at low cost whilst accelerating the team with the party battery/NP gain up with good values. Guts is better than just being at full HP when an NP or crit swings in; neither provide mitigation, so if you lack sufficient mitigation a Servant backed by Medea Lily crumples on an unlucky turn.

Asclepius focuses his healing/debuff resistance a little more on a single target, but on that target he provides superior benefit.

For comps not stalling but using him as another tool to keep the main attacker(s) up the fact he doesn’t pop guts on himself is welcome, as Recks alluded.

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I can see all that, but it’s more a matter of choice than necessity, at least for rosters like ours. No developed roster ever needs him.

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Yeah because we have most nuke buttons & nigh invincible walls. But for someone with a not so diverse roster he ticks a lot of boxes when the occasion arises.

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My roster is pretty diverse, but he does have a very particular set of skills, skills that make him a nightmare for challenge quests and boss fights due to his low cost and guts for everybody else.

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I thought for a moment that you were going to talk about Liam Neeson.

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With NP? Yes, its better, but unless you are using Irisviel/ plan for Asclepius to die the team is mismatched to the boss. With crits? Its worse and the team is mismatched as well. If crits take you from 100% to 0% then you dont need healing but hard mitigation, and both Lily and Asclepius bring little value.

Guts is like an anchor. Unless you plan on using it, ideally you never need it, but its a nice safety net. Its better then what Lily has to offer, but not by much as in most cases its just there.

On stall teams featuring either Lily and Asclepius, hard mitigation is handled by someone else. Asclepius has more tools to help with that than Lily in general, but as said above on some rare fights she brings equal/more value.

All else being equal, Lily provides the whole team more healing/debuff resist than he provides on 1 target.

Then you haven’t seen my Asclepius in action. Bond 10 because of that guts supporting my dear suicidal Stella man! the charge support and heal are useful too

:fgo_arashsmile:

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After spending all my SQ and not getting her, I totally agree with this verdict. :fgo_brynsad:

Just right after Marie Alter, Real Deal Nobounaga and Archer Hercules. Can’t use Arcuied anymore…

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