Lore Question: Beast Kiara vs Nine-Tail Tamamo-no-Mae? Who Wins?

I’m not as familiar with the larger Nasuverse lore since I’ve never played the other games nor watched any of the other shows outside of Fate, so I’m hoping those of you here who are versed in the lore can answer.

The current event has me wondering: who’s stronger in lore terms, Kiara or Tamamo?

I know that neither are even at their peak forms while in Chaldea. But if they did go all-out (which probably includes transforming even beyond their current servant forms) which of them would actually be considered the strongest?

They’ll put up a fun fight to watch, but it should be Tamamo in nine tails form hands down

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I probably can’t answer this satisfactorily, but let me ask you the question that’s going to come up anyway. In Seraph or out of it?

I don’t enough to know how Seraph would factor into it, so I’ll say outside of Seraph. But I’m actually curious to know how being in Seraph would benefit (I’m assuming) Kiara.

Well Kiara was capable of circumventing BB’s control of Seraph so stands to reason that she’s basically a god in that virtual environment. I imagine Tamamo would win easily in the real world, but inside Seraph would likely favor Kiara.

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Round 2, same scenerio but as a Doujin

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Just to give some context as to how powerful 9-tailed Tamamo is, each of her tails increases her power by an exponential of 9. That means that if her current power is x, her 9-tailed power is x^9^9^9^9^9^9^9^9. I don’t think that I need to mention how big that is. According to the wiki, she is so powerful that the Mooncell itself couldn’t delete her. In a different ending she also just spent 1000 years training and then time travelled back and destroyed the Mooncell in a single kick. No magic or anything, Tama the caster kicked it.

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She didn’t merely destroy the Mooncell, she rebooted it and reprogrammed it into a virtual world for her and her master to live happily together in.

Tamamo is a solar deity, so she is in a tier above beings of the Earth, such as the Beasts. Kiara could have succeeded in her plan to absorb all of Earth into herself, and then she maybe could have threatened Tamamo.

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Maybe by then she will finally have a NP charge skill :fgo_bbgrin:

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image

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Kiara wins in the only category that matters :fgo_kamalewd: :fgo_bblaugh:

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Throw me in the ring

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F2J_Hell coming in with the steel chair!

OH NO TAMAMO DOESNT HAVE AN EVADE

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Having them fight each theoretically is fine and all, but there are so many circumstances that can tilt the scales. From what little I’ve read, the simplest way I could probably put it is that they are in a similar regard as the Grand title. Where their power can’t be properly compared to someone similar because some of their abilities are unique to them, and in the case of Kiara and Tamamo it’s probably those unique abilities that might trip up the opponent.

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I strongly doubt that Kiara could do anything to threaten Amaterasu. If Kiara were to assimilate the Earth and all of humanity, Amaterasu could just scorch the Earth bare. That is, after all, what the sun is going to do, in around 4 billion years, or so.

Random Science Fact: We have no idea how long it takes for a brown dwarf star to die, because the universe isn’t old enough for any to have died, yet.

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Well, there might be one thing. Logos Eater apparently affects anything and Amatarasu, as far as I remember, isn’t beyond lust. Plus, there’s also that program that let’s her separate the mind, body, and soul and then let her eat the soul but I don’t know if that needs to be voluntary on the victims part or not.

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Wellll if Kiara expands her powers beyond just earth, and assimilated the entire universe or cosmos into her, she might just overpower Amaterasu, but she’ll have to remain undetected and unthwarted until then. Getting there is probably impossible

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It depends. There is no consistency to Tamamo and the writers rarely understand what they are writing. They mostly just write something because it sounds cool in that moment and no thought is ever given to consistency, logic, necessity or reason. There is never a moment where a writer says to himself/herself “this doesn’t make sense. This is completely inconsistent and contradictory to what I wrote 10 pages ago or what I want to write in 10 pages.” Hence the lying CLAIM that Tamamo’s power increases by 9 with each tail even though that makes absolutely no sense and is totally 100% inconsistent relative to every other character. Back when Tamamo had 9 tails she wasn’t 1 million times stronger than every other god character, she was on their level. So it is totally 100% impossible and illogical for Tamamo to get 9 times stronger with each tail.

In Extra/CCC you do meet a version of full power Tamamo in Tamamo’s inner psyche where Tamamo is remembering herself from the past when she had 9 tails and she wasn’t that powerful. So Tamamo with 9 tails is probably on the same level as full power Quetzal because that was the takeaway from that scene.

Joe Jennings: “You can’t just write anything you want simply because it is fiction otherwise it doesn’t become particularly believable.”

Can we not hate on the writers, please? This community only exists because we all love the stories and characters in the Fate universe, after all. What you call inconsistencies are merely the source material not matching your own assumptions, which is not the fault of the writers.

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Leaving aside the obvious claim that Tamamo’s 9-tailed form in her memories may not be a perfect match for her form in reality, Tamamo’s legend didn’t just come out of nowhere. Foxes of all varieties were common figures in Japanese folklore, both just real foxes and gods who chose to take the form of foxes, and legend had it that foxes would grow an extra tail for every 1000 years they lived, and any regular fox that grew 9 tails would ascend to godhood. With that understanding in place, a fox that was already a god growing 9 tails being extremely powerful is not a logical reach at all.

Not to mention there is absolutely no reason, in the Fate universe or otherwise, to assume that all Divine Spirits are equal in power. Pantheons are normally stratified by power level, and in many cultures, sun deities were at the absolute top of the pile. There’s not really enough Divine Spirits running around the in the Fate world for us to go creating any substantive theories on how they’d function in all scenarios, nor enough Beasts for that matter, and most of the ones that do exist exist in FGO, where the rules are explicitly stated to be quite different due to the nature of Chaldea’s Servant summoning system as opposed to a regular Holy Grail War operating using the 3rd Magic or the Mooncell’s digital summoning process, which are both substantially different in nature. But it is worth noting that all the goddesses in Babylonia can exert their full Authority over Tiamat - namely Ereshkigal, seeing as her Authority does actually come into play - so I see no reason why Amaterasu, one of the most powerful deities in Shinto belief, should have trouble standing up to a Beast when a cabal of fairly minor Mesapotamian goddesses managed against Tiamat just fine.

It’s not “inconsistent” for every piece of lore not to play out on screen in the most obvious possible way, and especially in the context of CCC, if your suspension of disbelief can handle an absurdly powerful supercomputer of debatable origin housed on the Moon, capable of summoning the spirits of dead heroes from the past, present, future and even from different pasts that never occurred in the world of CCC, a glitched-out nurse AI breaking herself into 6 pieces and fusing the other 5 with various goddess data to create autonomous sentinels and a nun so goddamn horny she literally moves between different continuities to attempt to put the entire Earth inside her vagina, I really fail to see why 9-tailed Tamamo, who we never see in action, having a totally off-the-charts power level that is consistent with the things she was able to do in lore, is what is really breaking your immersion here. Fate isn’t science fiction, at best it’s science fantasy, which is a legitimate genre with its own tropes and rules and standards. If it pisses you off that much, I may politely suggest that you stop reading it and restrict yourself to more conventional hard science fiction that’s tailored to your tastes.

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