Lower Tier SRs and Gawain

gawain

#1

I would first like to start this discussion by saying , no despite what the title said, this actually has nothing to do with GP’s tier list,
rather this has to do with how despite the buffs many of the lower tier 4 stars,

  • Tamacat
  • Beowulf
  • Snek
  • Mac Cumhaill
  • Asstolfo
  • Funny valentine
    and a few more i didnt mention,
    all got buffs that either make them some of the strongest 4 stars in their niche, or even just more usable

We still have the odd ones that until now, still havent got buffed for whatever reason.
This thread is gonna be about that.

So, who are we looking at. Well, im only gonna be talking about 1 servant

  • The Chad Gorilla, Gawain

First case:
Gawain, on the surface he seems decent enough.
Sure he may have no useful skills, but it’s precisely cause of that he would be a great Super cheap F2P Option for cheapos.
Not needing any mats to invest in his skilll since,
his first skill is situational, his 3rd skill’s np charge is fixed.
a 1/10/1 gawain at np 2 with his np buff would be a good F2P farming option.
But then DW had the bright idea to story lock him… for no reason.

Best way to fix him: Honestly, IMO he needs 3 buffs for him to be able to compete with his peers.
FIrst, NP Buff, straight forward enough.
Second, buff his 3rd skill so that it also somehow gives sunlight field for 1 turn, which would then allow him to maximise his 1st skill
Third, buff his 2nd skill so that every card attack he does, gives a burn damage, that can be stacked

Thoughts?
Also feel free to disagree with me on anything or point out how other servants are in more dire needs of buff :=


#2

I actually think buffing his charisma to a slightly higher value + turning the field to sunny would be enough to bring him into a higher tier.

That, and an NP interlude.


#3

Ye basically, but he’ll still be in the middle of the road since he wont offer anything but just be an aoe saber farmer, which is decent enough
but a 20% np charge and gorilla deck doesn’t go very far especially for event farming
especially with his hit counts too, unless one goes into his extra attacks

buffing his np to give inferno like tomoe, and giving him the ability to inflict burns would make him viable even in non np situations


#4

He’d have a nicer survival niche if his guts actually lasted for more than one turn. But yeah in my opinion, Gawain’s worst aspect is that even on sunny stages, Gawain’s NP damage is surprisingly low. The only really useful aspect about him I think is his skill seal which is very rarely relevant. I agree, he needs a NP rank up really badly to even begin to compare with other SR sabers.


#5

Rather than a ‘Sunlight’ skill, why not make his NP create Sunlight for a turn or two?

Use Numeral of the Saint on a non-sunlight field where the Sunlight effect doesn’t work. Then, after his NP fires off, the field gains sunlight for that turn, possibly even the next. If using an NPBB chain, the two Buster cards get the Buster Buff from Numeral.

It won’t affect the NP, obviously, but I can’t see how or why he would be able to create Sunlight with just a skill.

Also, to live up to his reputation of being ‘Unbeatable’ when the sun is out, as long as Numeral of the Saint is active with sunlight (natural or NP induced) his Guts does not disappear regardless of whether he was killed or the turn ends. Either than, or an interlude to give Numeral a massive Damage Cut and/or Def buff, much like the Gawain fight in Camelot.

That would make him more viable as more than ‘just another’ AoE Saber farmer. He’s already got waaaaaaay too much competition in that field so he needs something unique.


#6

really,
you really wanna bring that into this game
when you have people who’s np are actually intergrated into skills and etc
just bring some shit like fairy protection causing the sun to raise or something

his Guts does not disappear regardless of whether he was killed or the turn ends.
actually a great idea, but DW sucks at doing shit like that so prob wont


#7

ok this is quite intresting.
I actually think gawein is fine.
Let me explain, first of all, while made this statement i am not leting my hate for this servant have the best of me ok? this is out of pure logic.
Now, on what i mean by “fine”.
I belive his niche is not aoe saber.
There is no way thet he can ever ever ever ever stand a chance in the aoe department. And not becouse he suck, but becouse the saber competition for aoe is to great.
We have like 4 aoe 5*, and in the 4 star we have more.
His niche is not aoe. sure, he have aoe np, becouse if he had a ST he would have be broken.
Why? he have a berserker deck, 3 steroid and one of the hightest attack stats among 4*.
thets is niche. Play him as zerker, and forget he have an np. As a saber he have decent star weight. Augment it with the new and hot talk on the ot sand, and you have a crit saber who work fine as a ST.

Dont get me wrong, i have burned 5 copy of him and i will burn him agein, but i think he is missjudged.
Try him like thet and he will be good even if compared to highter tier saber (well, except musashi, who is actually him but better in all aspect, but she is a 5* so)


#8

By the way, i am ageins any kind of buff thet dont reflect the servant lore.
Adding a " make is sun" skill is not a good idea. Gawein did not have thet ability at all. why should he have it?
A good way to make a buff for him could be follow his lore
“invincible under the sun”. instead of try to make him a copy pasta of other aoe saber, lets work on this.
How about, his first skill had a 20% def up for 3 turn as well?
This way his first skill would complement his play stile as a pseudo berserk with no class advantage . And would be more close to his lore (he will basically have a " i am a 5* for 3 turn out of 5" skill)
Obviously another way would give him a invulnerability on hit on thet for 3 turn. like 2 attack and disappear at the third turn like the skill.


#9

Would it be possible to gain the skill buff If the sunlight field comes out at the start of the np instead? I feel like it would make him much more useful that way


#10

Context is important

Let’s compare him to the 4* aoe sabers and fergus I’ll rank them in atk lowest to highest
Fergus
Saber lily (note there’s only 100 pts of atk difference between her and fergus at max)
Nero (Arts)
Siegfired
Gawain
Saber Alter (note only 100 pts of atk difference between her and Gawain at max)

with just all their own buffs up at np 1 10/10/10 he’s out damaging all of them except saber alter. And Saber Alter and Gawain are the only ones with any sort of support buff that’s even worth discussing. (No - Instinct is not a worthwhile support skill) He’s got a 32% attack up for 3 turns + situational 30% buster up FOR 3 TURNS. Saber alter only gets 12% for 3 turns+1 turn 50% mana burst. Her np multiplier is 450% vs 300% for Gawain that’s the only difference and well she’s her king so blame that down to lore. gawain should get an interlude eventually to make that 400%

Have a look at what’s considered a sunlight field - the list is massive, it triggers more than you’d think. Everybody else’s who has a mana burst type skill is 1 turn only. Again his is 3 turns when it triggers. Sieg’s damage bonus is just as situational or you have to handcuff him to george. If you want to make Gawains mana burst effect on 1st skill more consistent it’s going to have to last 1 turn only instead of 3.

And do note other than Fergus or Nero no other 4 * or lower aoe saber has a survival skill of any sort. He’s the only one with an np charge skill. As for multiple effects on his skills being a problem-so does Jalter and Quetz. You can’t have it all.

If you want to add Nero as the other 4* aoe saber to the comparison she’s Arts based and other than her unkillable nature the dmg output is even worse. You’re also relying on a chance based buff to get her atk up for 3 turns. Gawain is only looks bad as a farmer because Fergus exists at np5 for free and Gawain is an absolute pain the butt to ascend and skill up.

tl:dr at same np level he’s only outdamaged by saber alter from the 4* and lower, has multiple things going for him that everyone seems to forget over other 4* and instead they focus on weaknesses

Atalanta has had a strengthening already so I hold no hope of this ever happening but there is absolutely no reason her np gain should be this bad. Wth her 3rd skill her np gain goes from disgustingly bad to below average. She’s handcuffed to Kaliedescope. She doesn’t hit particularly hard because of her deck and pitiful attack. Give her some sort of np charge skill or at least tweak her np gain, For heaven’s sake Tama cat has better np gain than her


#11

An NP interlude for starters.
A buff to his 2nd skill to work like Voyager of the Storm (AKA NP damage and Attack up)
A buff to his 3rd skill to make the guts 1 time and gain 15 stars.
I’m not gonna lie, i absolutely hate Gawain. When i rolled for Bedivere, Gawain appeared and i burned him. When i rolled for Lancelot he appeared and i burned him. When i rolled for Bedivere in the current class based summon i got another Gawain and burned him again.
But every Servant should at least be useful and have niche so i’m not gonna be a hypocrite.


#12

I agree that his damage buff while situational is still underrated. One also has to take into account his normal attacks that are quite impressive when buffed with his skill. The NP charge is a nice cherry on top especially in shorter battles such as three turn farming. I’m not saying he should be rated any higher but I feel like he is not as terrible as people make him out to be.


#13

Although his damage buff can be effective on a not sunny field, it is only at its best when you can take advantage of that niche. This is made even more obvious through the first skill only providing a fixed 20% buff when the sun is not present.
His charisma E is also underwhelming, providing a mere 12% buff at lvl 10. This doesn’t even make much sense since Gawain is hailed as one of the strongest and most prideful knights of the round.
His last skill has a fixed NP charge and a 1 time, 1 turn guts, a really difficult skill to utilize since the two purposes differ so much, making his survivability mediocore at best.
Overall, his forte seems to lie in critting and not his NP, because the current Excalibur Galatine could never hope to match other AOE Buster NPs even with all buffs active, which in lore should’ve bumped Galatine up to tier A+++.

IMO
He desperately needs an NP interlude and a longer guts.
He could use a charisma C, but that wouldn’t matter much in the long run.
His first skill is good, it doesn’t require any buffs since it follows the lore and is balanced at the same time.
Some may even argue that his first skill is needlessly OP, but that is simply untrue because unlike other servants who possesses the skill Mana burst, Gawain only deals any real damage if he uses Numeral of the Saint in conjunction with his buster crits and not his NP, which, again, would require a dedicated team and a sunny field.
(sunny fields are fewer than you think and sometimes really weird)