Lyon - Accepting, moving on and making the best out of it

It’s been about 19 hours since dreams were shattered.
For some there was a light of hope, only for it do be dashed.
There have been some who hope to twist the mistranslation into reality, but I wouldn’t put my money on it.

Some took the refine well, others less so. But I want to go over why I think it was done, and more importantly why it’s not as bad a situation as it seems to be. Without saying it’s an amazing refine. It’s not.
It can be a useful refine, if you like Lyon you can absolutely make him shine. But I wouldn’t say it’s something to go out of your way for.

Do mind, this is heavily my opinion.
I have a tendency to look on the bright side (for the most part). If you’re mad at IS for doing what they’ve done, feel free to feel that way. Don’t let me stop you.

Just as I won’t let that stop me.


Why?

Well I think the issue at the core is raven. IS always has been restrictive about raven.
And when you think about it, there’s reasoning for it. Every unit in this game has equal weakness and strengths. Except raven. Units that reverse the weapon triangle are outstanding, so units that are strong against two colors, one that normally has no weakness, does do something unique.
Boey is a unit that has… terrible stats. But slap TA on him and he absolutely dunks on blue and colorless units.

That said, it’s clear IS values raven more than players. And I can’t blame the players. Like I said, some strong units can screw with the triangle, having those means they can also do greatly against neutral matchups.

Still, there’s value in a unit that focusses on 2-3 colors over a more generalist. Just as there are very good defencive units, there are scary ass offencive units, especially in a mode like AR. I’ve seen B!Edelgards get too cocky and die to even neutral matchups.
Remember, against a unit a color advantage will often give you a bigger edge than any weapon’s base effect could give you.

This doesn’t have to justify the reasoning I think IS gives raven tomes, but it’s merely an explaination as to why they would think this


Rivals and builds

Assuming you haven’t build any of em, you might wanna know who to pick if you want a red raventome unit.
Who’s the best?
Nobody.

Sorta kinda.
Well let’s do a quick comparison between the three options
Lyon, Sophia and Henry




Tome boost as ‘buffs’

Should be noted that:
Henry overal has the best activation condition. Anyone who he beats in atk won’t damage him.
Sophia is full enemy phase, but always active
Lyon needs to be healthy, but it’s important to know that the stats are dual phase.

Sophia gets no secondary effect. Lyon has QR, Henry guard.

What that means is that while her stats are probably the best, Sophia’s weapon makes her the worst raventome user out of the three. On the flipside Sophia will very much take better to inheritable weapons than the other two.

Now Henry and Lyon are a bit more differend. Henry has a lot more def, in exchange for a lot less attack.
What’s more important is QR vs Guard. It’s the slot they open up, since both units want both effects to really shine.
Guard is a B skill, but if you want it, 9/10 times you’re going for the dual stance option. Henry opens up his A slot there, free for Close counter, or even better… Close Foil.
Lyon however opens up his B slot or seal. This makes it able for him to run Null C-Disrupt and either stack on stats with distant defence or go for sustain with mystic boost. Adding in his higher attack, Lyon is more suited for anti-ranged combat.
It should be mentioned that for TA, I would go for Lyon regardless. TA lowers the need for guard, since a special isn’t going to do much. But Lyon’s atk allows him to easier deal damage, especially on a budget.

So here’s two options I like.
The first is merged with reasonable flowers and skills.
The second is if you wanna go full in.


(any non-spd stance will work. But I like to add some damage in)
+Res is nice, since AoE mages are probably the scariest beasts you can meet.


Perfect timing/team building

One thing Lyon has, is timing. There’s never been a better time in Feh’s history where units only made to bait ranged units had something like this.

Savior skills.

Biggest issue of a unit like Lyon is that if the enemy ranged unit had overlapping range with a melee unit… He’s screwed. He can’t counter, needs to take two hits and usually will take on too many units he cannot survive.
That’s where savior comes in. It just makes him be able to function is a great many situations he couldn’t before.

I cannot state it enough. These nasty skills cover for Lyon’s biggest weakness (Besides crippling depression)

Grab a blue or green unit with the skill, and they’ll do right by you.
Hell, B!Ephraim with armored boots could cover this niche for you and also be an offence unit that takes out those you shouldn’t try to bait. Lyon and B!Ephraim have great synergy, really.

That aside there’s one specific unit I think would fit in well if you have her.
Therapy Fish Flayn.

But if you’re on a budget, never fear. Old people are here:

Dual distant guard may be a tad of a waste for the unit itself, but Flayn especially shouldn’t reach combat if she can help it. It’s +8 to def/res on the crucial fights for Lyon, and Flayn adds in the nifty DR for the real heavy hitters.
Ofc anyone who can boost an ally’s bulk is gonna be helpful here.


Final word

I am content. Lyon is not what I hoped he is, but at the same time with some help of recent additions to the game, I don’t think he’s in the same situation as he was back when he was released.
With what he has, I feel no shame in using him. And I don’t think building a team around him is a waste of my time.

I am making the best of a situation that’s not ideal. That is how it is, and I won’t die on a hill saying Lyon was done right by this. Unlike other times, the salt doesn’t really bother me. Because I kinda get it.

I just hope others are able to see the beauty in this boy.


27 Likes

Very nicely done post!
I am a little disappointed with his refine, too, but oh well. It’s not so bad that using him would feel wrong, it’s just… also not great.
I will probably use him in AR (not sure if offense, but maybe in defense) and story maps.

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Me seeing build ideas because I don’t have much of an idea for how to build him

I like this tho. It’s always nice to look on the bright side :fgo_ereshwoah:

And it’s not as bad as it could’ve been tbh

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I have always used teh Triangle Adept on him, and I think he makes a great use of it.
He can clear entire maps of green and grey enemies, pretty easy. With QR covered thanks to his weapon, you now can have his Seal slot liberated, since his B slot will be used for Guard and avoid enemy especials.

Im just here waiting patiently until they give us Triangel Adept as Sacred Seal.
Then he will be able to use Close Counter with a safe Triangel Adept estrategy (QR, Guard).

The -4 to the enemy Attack and Resistence is even better for the TA strategy, since the grey and green enemies will be even more threaten now and Lyon will hurt them even more.

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Lyon got an okay refine, but the mistranslation definitely left more unhappy since it’s somewhat unremarkable overall.

I do think he definitely could’ve got better since he is a fan favourite (he is one of my faves too), but an improvement is an improvement regardless on how you slice it, so I’ll take it.

It’s good to see you doing your best with building such a good boi. I just hope others can move on and accept his refine for what it is :feh_catria:

The funny thing is that I don’t recall a time that people got so upset over a refine before (but to be fair it’s warranted).

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Great post as always, sir. I’ve gotta admit I was salty AF. It’s just so disappointing since other grail refines have been really solid, and this just feels like a step back. But like you said, hes not terrible, and objectively speaking, his refine’s still decent. Just not as mind-blowing as I expected.

Also I love the idea of pairing him with B! Ephraim. I may just steal that idea.

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I was rather disappointed with Lyons refine. It felt like he was being unnecessarily shafted to make room for IS’ favorites. The refines not bad, just not where it could have been. But regardless, you do put things well into perspective. Lyons been given opportunity to really show what he’s made of…
…and he’s not alone, because once I saw that +10 Gunter, I knew everything was going to be alright.

5 Likes

Well made post and analysis on IS handling raven tomes.

I do feel a similar way to Cecilla’s refine but I’ve grown to like it and Free TA makes her A slot really good.

Even though I use Sophia, I was hoping Lyon would’ve gotten something amazing since grail units have been getting solid refines in the past (Berkut, Clarisse and Legion are my go-to examples). While it is better than Sophia’s refine, he should’ve gotten less restrictions and dual phase auto double.

Lyon is such a popular and good character and people were hoping IS would give him the love we thought they’d give him but the refine is still quite useful.

These builds are also wonderful as well especially the support options!

Lyon is a good boi and I’m glad people like you are seeing the good in what he has.

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Always nice to see some positivity :feh_nini:
Everyone else has basically said what I would say already, so I don’t really have any further comments.
I hope everybody who has built Lyon is having fun with his new refine :feh_eirikaxmas:

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Well done sir. My feelings on Nowi refine echo this

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Glad to see some Lyon positivity. I made another post about this, and even with the refine, I ended up blowing my grail stash to +10 Lyon because it’s still a good upgrade, and it’s Lyon of all people.

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say it with me kids
at least it’s not tome of favors

He definitely deserved better, but I’m still planning to +10 and build him optimally, however I’ve been struggling to come up with a satisfying kit.
In order to make good use of his decent def and raven tome, I’m tempted to go for CC and NC-D; then I think he’ll need the Mystic boost seal to keep his hp high enough for his weapon to work (and also helps countering healers)… But with that build he doesn’t get any additional stat buff, with his middling statline he’ll have a hard time against the ranged units he was supposed to counter… TA or a Stance could fix that, but then he loses to melee units and his high def feels like a waste, then if I still want more stats I pick Lull and he loses the anti-healer/firesweep role…
It’s rough :confused:

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Most raven tome users are best as specific counters, usually to distance units. They don’t really need CC (as I think the only colorless melee enemies are F!Tiki, L!Corn, and Cainneghis? Maybe missing one or two, but point is there aren’t a lot). DD4 or a T4 stance still are probably your best options. NCD is definitely the way to go, to deal with healers and other annoyances. Defense isn’t a waste, because it allows you to deal with bow and dagger users, some of whom are very dangerous (Shinon. Hate that guy).

Seal is very flexible. Can stack DD, run a stance, mystic boost, etc. lots of options, all very good.

Also, welcome.

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But really, what did you expect? Meme tome for meme character.

Could be worse, could be something like OG Lyn. Desperation when units now have that at anything below 100% HP, and brash assault on a unit that’s supposed to be a speedy sword unit. You should be doubling anyway. Fine synergy, but really conservative to anything in the game now.

Then there’s Effie, who is the go to example for this.

Oliver isn’t good, but was anyone expecting him to be? Besides, he’s perfect for a full meme team with reyson, leanne, and Rafiel.

I accually kinda like his tome. But that’s me.

Overal I’m really happy with the reaction to this post :D
Yeah there’s a general sadness around this situation, but that doesn’t mean we should just mumble, complain and let salt control us

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I actually like his refine. Definitely the best red raventome user for the niche that I am looking to fill (cavline counter). It boils down to Sophia vs Lyon and whether the grail cost is justified (Henry serves a much more prominent role in ARD).

After simming them through identical skill sets, it is very close. Lyon has the edge in atk and PP since lull are dual phase, but not by much. Whether that justify 1.3k+ grail cost, is up to the player.

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