# Math with Siegfried

Something I wanna check if I get this right.
Siegfried has 2 effects as ‘anti dragon’, his NP and third skill.
Just want to check if I get the maths right.

This is how I have it in my head:
The NP buff adds the the base damage of the np. So for big Sieg who has 400% base and the 150% base anti dragon, I assume it works by adding them together. 550% base vs dragons (Edit: Might also be 450% now that I think about it)
For the third skill, I kinda think it works like buster and atk up. Adding in another in the series of multiplicative buffs. So [Base NP power] * Np damage up * atk up * card effectiveness up * effective against damage

Am I right in thinking this, or am I making some mistakes?

No, those special damage against [trait] NP effects work like another multiplier, so
[Base NP power] * NP special attack * Np damage up * atk up * card effectiveness up * effective against damage

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NP effect (x150%) + skill lv 10 (+80%) = 230% again dragon
NP (x400% burst) + skill lv 10 (+50% burst) = 600% burst
NP Dmg without CE & other buff is 1380% burst again dragon. Wtf, that dmg can destroy altria lancer in 1 strike.

Nope. The Anti-Dragon Modifier is different from the NP Damage Modifier. Also, one thing of note, is that although it says additional damage of 150% at 100% NP Charge, it’s not +150%. Rather, it’s multiplied BY 150%, or x1.5, or a special buff with a 50% value.

As for the 3rd skill, it falls under Special Damage or Power Mod buffs, which stacks multiplicatively with ATK buffs and Card type buffs.

The two put together (Anti-dragon on NP and Anti-dragon on skill) DON’T stack additively AFAIK. I could be mistaken but I’m pretty sure the two are calculated separately in the formula rather than being added together during the calculations.

In short…

If applied separately on the NP damage, NP’s 150% Anti-Dragon will boost the damage THE SAME AMOUNT as Skill 3 with a 50% Anti-Dragon Value. I know, this is moot since it’s not possible to only use the skill’s buff and not the NP’s buff considering the latter is built into the NP. But if they could be used separately, the damage increase would be exactly the same.

In turn, if the NP’s Anti-Dragon value was dropped to 125%, and the Skill’s Anti-Dragon value was at 25%, the combined damage increase would be HIGHER than the damage boost from above.

BTW, I could be mistaken at some points, but this is how I understand the damage formula. I could probably check with a damage calculator… if I wasn’t busy with AK at the moment.

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So to put it shorter, the NP anti dragon effect boosts the Np with 50% damage
Bringing it’s base damage to 600%?

And then the anti dragon value on his last skill works seperate, as an differend type of attack up.
(like NP up, atk up, buster up)

Does that sound right?

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Seems like a good time for this

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Pretty much this ^

Siegfried’s Anti-dragon falls under two categories. The skill is Type 3, while the NP’s is a Supereffective Modifier. So although the two are the same, they don’t stack additively.

Separately, provided the values were the same, the damage buff would be the same. Put together, the damage scales waaaaaaay up.

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Ah, now that’s a good one.
So NP damage up and anti dragon add together and don’t stack multiplicative.

So my last question would be then:
Does the NP effect do 150% more damage (so *2,5. Like how a 50% buster buff is *1,5)
or would it be 150% of the damage (*1,5)

Assuming the latter.
Siegfied’s base damage vs Dragons:
400% base * 1,5 (buster 50%) * 1,8 (anti-dragon skill) + (any Np damage buff)* 1,5 (anti-dragon NP)
Resulting in 1620% damage.
Sound right?

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The NP’s supereffective Anti-dragon mod is listed as 150%, but that’s multiplicative so it’s basically multiplying it by 150%/1.5.

As for the calculation you listed, it’s not quite that simple. The image is just a very simplified version of the damage formula.

Putting this here just in case you haven't seen it yet and wanna look at the damage formula in full.

damage for this card = [servantAtk * npDamageMultiplier * (firstCardBonus + (cardDamageValue * (1 + cardMod))) * classAtkBonus * triangleModifier * attributeModifier * randomModifier * 0.23 * (1 + atkMod - defMod) * criticalModifier * extraCardModifier * (1 - specialDefMod) * {1 + powerMod + selfDamageMod + (critDamageMod * isCrit) + (npDamageMod * isNP)} * {1 + ((superEffectiveModifier - 1) * isSuperEffective)}] + dmgPlusAdd + selfDmgCutAdd + (servantAtk * busterChainMod)

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At least I’m on track with the anti-dragon effect on the NP.
It’s *1,5 at base, *2 at max OC.

Ofc the real damage is a rough issue, but I do think I got a grasp of how much Siegfried is affected by the dragon parts.

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NP at 100% charge multiple 150% anti dragon is same with add 50% right?
So, stack with 80% from skill 3, it will be add 130% or we can see it same with multiple 230%

Pretty much, yes. Siegfried lives up to his title of ‘Dragonslayer’ and his dual Anti-dragon buffs are why he is often paired with Georgios’ NP, which grants the target the ‘Dragon’ Trait. Save for Archers, it will let Siegfried slaughter most any enemy.

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Can also see how incredibly he scales with NP level and skill level.
It’s kinda like Archer Gil, an AoE that still deals amazing damage against ST. (if a bit more conditional)

In the past I was sad with his low atk, but honestly he’s still dealing big numbers with that.
And the George + Merlin synergy is something else (and makes use out of Siegfried’s incredible HP stat)
Gotta get busy on leveling the skills on those two I guess, since this isn’t a taunt and gone use of George.

I pulled out siegfried for the first time in a long long time on the node vs liz as boss this event. Wow, talk about turning a wimpy lvl1 np into a raging inferno of fried dragon steaks! Too bad that Hydra doesn’t have a dragon trait too because it still got the wimpy treatment.

I’ve had him since before saber wars (original), but even lily felt more powerful back then so he got sidelined pretty quick as my saber lineup expanded. I should remember to use him more when dragon lancer enemies are around.

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That’s why the George + Siegfried setup is famous
Especially in bossfights with mobs.

Apply dragon trait with George, then slap Siegfried’s np right after.
Decent damage vs mobs, destroys boss with an NP that’s higher than normal ST damage.

Keep forgetting to test that team up. Not sure I’ve ever seen George’s np tbh. But it’s only listed as ST trait application, which seems less useful unless the wave already has at least 1 dragon traited enemy.

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As I said above, George increases Siegfried’s damage more than Merlin does if fighting a non-dragon enemy.
George can apply ‘dragon’ to a boss, to let Siegfried deal massive damage.
And with Merlin the team’s also very bulky.

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