Movepool updates

New movepool updates:

  • Cloyster: Icy Wind
  • Feraligatr: Ice Fang
  • Porygon2 and Porygon-Z: Lock-On - Thank you!
  • Celebi: Seed Bomb
  • Shiftry: Snarl
  • Kyogre: Surf
  • Lickilicky: Shadow Ball
  • Tangrowth: Power Whip - Thank you!
  • Heatran: Flamethrower
  • Stoutland: Ice Fang
  • Forretress, Torterra, Garchomp, and Gliscor : Sand Tomb.

Previously legacy moves:

Arcanine: Flamethrower
Poliwrath: Mud Shot
Machamp: Cross Chop
Golem: Ancient Power
Gengar: Shadow Claw
Exeggutor: Confusion
Pinsir: Fury Cutter
Gyarados: Dragon Breath, Twister
Snorlax: Body Slam
Dragonite: Dragon Breath, Dragon Claw

New moves:

  • Octazooka -Octillery and Kingdra.
  • Mirror Shot - Forretress, Magnezone, Ferrothorn, and Klinklang.
  • Fell Stinger - Beedrill, Qwilfish, Vespiquen, and Drapion.
  • Aura Sphere - Lucario.
    Superpower - Pinsir, Snorlax, Hariyama, Rhyperior, and Melmetal.

The following changes also happened to existing moves outside of pvp/rocket battles:
Mud-slaps power was increased.
Earthquake does more damage.

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Regarding the moves that used to be legacy and are now TM-able again:
Arcanine: Flamethrower
It’s way better than fire blast, although Arcanine is quite outclassed now when it comes as a fire attacker.

Poliwrath: Mud Shot
Pure pvp move, no use in raids or gym defense

Machamp: Cross Chop
Inferior to Dynamic punch in every possible way regarding raids.

Golem: Ancient Power
Inferior to all rock moves regarding raids.

Gengar: Shadow Claw
As someone who has a 100% Hex gengar, two 100% gastly and a 90% shiny gastly with 15 attack… let’s just say that this made my day. And thankfully I didn’t need to push the low attack shadow claw I got traded over.

Exeggutor: Confusion
Best move on defense and for it’s psychic role, it is however outclassed in that department, so it’s mostly a team filler

Pinsir: Fury Cutter
Bug bite is slightly better for raids, fury cutter is better regarding rocket battles, although please don’t use pinsir there. Scizor is way better due to better resistances.

Gyarados: Dragon Breath, Twister
Dragon breath is fine if one decides to use it as a novelty “dragon” attacker in raids combined with Outrage. Has some use vs palkia for instance, but outclassed. Twister is bad move and it’s only advantage is that it is spammable for gym defense.

Snorlax: Body Slam
Among the best moves regarding gym defense combined with a fast move that does damage(buzz off slaking, body slam alone ain’t cutting it). Outrage in general does hit harder for those who don’t dodge, while body slam is more spamable and harder ro dodge.

Dragonite: Dragon Breath, Dragon Claw
Worse regarding raids. DC is better for gym defense, both are mostly additions for pvp and rocket battles, where DB is better than DT and Dragon Claw charges faster than Outrage, but does less damage.

All in all a few good legacy moves came back, including the one which is considering easily the best.

Best update in a long time. Thanks for the summary!

Glad legacies came back, glad Tangy got Power Whip (Which it should’ve had since release), glad Earthquake got buffed to 140bp. Feel validated for maxing out my Garchomp now

How does Excadrill fare, given the Earthquake buff? Is it no longer in the top four for Ground damage?

Drill Run is still better, but Earthquake is pretty close.

It’s really a win for Excadrill since Mud Slap got a buff too.

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Aura Sphere is now the strongest move in game that can be learned by a species and it can be TM’d
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i feel like im the only one annoyed Lucario got aurasphere

Do not even the people who make and operate pokemon games love gen 5 pokemon…. RIP for conkeldurr, dead before it even had a chance.

Conkeldurr is a lame machamp family rip off and doesn’t deserve to be on top anywhere.

As of gen 5 hate, please show me where chandelure, hydreigon, excadrill got hate for being gen 5? People liked all three of them when they were released. Chandelure and excadrill actually made a difference in the meta and people liked them because of that and because they had something different to offer. Conkeldurr is to machamp what that garbodor is to muk, a clear lack of creativity when it was made.

That being said, unless they replace dynamic punch before it’s release it will still remain the second best figting attacker, so I don’t see what here deserves a “RIP”.

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Just did a nice facelift for my whole party.

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Conkeldurr can still claim the title of best TDO fighter, even if his movesets don’t change. Lucario isn’t blessed in that regard, except perhaps where his steel typing is an asset.

As of the other new moves:
All are terrible, bar superpower which is still quite meh. The rest are now the worst charge move of their type. yuck
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It usually is because of all the Dazzling Gleam Blisseys, Rock types, Ice and Steels all over the place.

Remember Lucario actively resists everything that Fighting might counter.

Indeed, Lucario will have a better TDO than it shows up there, due to resisting every type fighting is SE against. It also takes neutral damage from all weaknesses from the fighting type. This just leaves weaknesses to ground, fire and fighting, which fighting types don’t face that often.

Either TM return away or get a second move if you plan on using porygon for anything. Return was made a beyond terrible move in pvp/rocket battles in the new update.

Generalist use. Like, I plan to hurl it on random stuff in Partly Cloudy.

That’s because this was largely a PvP update. The buffs to Earthquake and Mudslap aside, the only new move with an impact on the PvE meta is Aura Sphere. The others are all buffing/debuffing moves which historically are pretty bad in PvE. Be interested to see how this shakes out by my advice is look out for Octillary!

Also surf for kyogre. Doesn’t really change the meta since it was was already the best water type but now that position is even more secure

Kinda my point right there. Conkeldurr’ lines based in particular on construction workers, Ogres (kinda) and muscle men from carnies, Machamp’s line are just buff body builders, not exactly a rip off, unless hariama’s just a machamp rip off thats fat, its job’s to be the physical fighting type of Unova, ad has the same basic stat distribution most fighting types have, most pokemon the same same typing tend to have similar stat distributions and similar concepts across generations, most gens are the same way, its just Unova was the only gen initially release without the gaps filled in, so new pokemon had to be made, and even in other games, where they didn’t need to make a while new gen, the can be just as accused of doing the same thing of 'reusing ideas ', how many pokemon across gens are all just ‘oh, poisonous bugs/snakes’, its not like theres a wealth of ideas for poison things that haven’t already been done before, so its hard to make something thats poison type or in particular fighting type as differentiated from one another as easily, they’re all going to look like the same ideas recycled because for the most part they’re there to do the same thing. Is it impossible to make them? No, but if go was you’re only exposure to gen 5, that would make sense why that’d be the case

Yes, those are three, compaired to the endless dislike of klink, vanilite, tribish lines,Emboar’s endless hate and in the same vein as your earlier comment ‘rip offs’ of older gen pokemon despite both other gens having done similar things meaning other gens are guilty ot if you dont think those gens did ripping off, then unova wasn’t either

You just proved my point in your own comment

I point you to moves on tyranitar, darkrai, terrakion, cobalion, all three regi’s, and a lot of other pokemon i’m probably leaving out

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Lucario just got the Meteor Mash Metagross treatment. Aura Sphere, barring a future nerf, just catapulted Lucario to the top of the fighting attacker list. Its bulk would normally be a problem but being half steel will patch up that weakness.

I’d be interested how Earthquake compares to Earth Power now, especially since most good ground types don’t get Earth Power and the only one that has both (that I can think of) is Flygon who sucks anyway. Since Drill Run Excadrill is still stronger than Earthquake, I’d imagine it’s not a huge shake up.

As for the legacy moves, THANK YOU! Obviously this is mostly for Shadow claw Gengar but Dragonite, Exeggutor, Arcanine, Gyarados and Snorlax will get their old moves that were removed for…unknown reasons. There’s hope for Omastar, Alakazam and some others that have less than stellar non-legacy moves.

Don’t sleep on Power Whip Tangrowth. IIRC, Power Whip is comparable to Grass Knot, which is a great improvement. It has better bulk than Roserade and was already a good Pokemon with a sub-optimal charge move so it’s definitely worth a mention.

The upcoming PvP update will be interesting with the new/updated moves and it gives hope to more regular move mix-ups/additions.

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Kinda my point right there. Conkeldurr’ lines based in particular on construction workers, Ogres (kinda) and muscle men from carnies, Machamp’s line are just buff body builders, not exactly a rip off, unless hariama’s just a machamp rip off thats fat, its job’s to be the physical fighting type of Unova, ad has the same basic stat distribution most fighting types have, most pokemon the same same typing tend to have similar stat distributions and similar concepts across generations, most gens are the same way, its just Unova was the only gen initially release without the gaps filled in, so new pokemon had to be made, and even in other games, where they didn’t need to make a while new gen, the can be just as accused of doing the same thing of 'reusing ideas ', how many pokemon across gens are all just ‘oh, poisonous bugs/snakes’, its not like theres a wealth of ideas for poison things that haven’t already been done before, so its hard to make something thats poison type or in particular fighting type as differentiated from one another as easily, they’re all going to look like the same ideas recycled because for the most part they’re there to do the same thing. Is it impossible to make them? No, but if go was you’re only exposure to gen 5, that would make sense why that’d be the case
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You can deny this all you want, but when you see a huge chunk of the fanbase repeating the same point, it’s rather obvious that there’s a reason they do this.

Yes, those are three, compaired to the endless dislike of klink, vanilite, tribish lines,Emboar’s endless hate
I only listed those three because not many gen 5 species have been released yet. That being said
Samurott, Unfezant were also well recieved and eventually Zoroark

Well that’s simple. Not only do klink and vanilite look rather lame, they are redundant three stage pokemon, where that seriously isn’t needed. The middle evolution offers nothing new and frankly shouldn’t exist to begin with, since all three evolutions barely differ to begin with.
Tribish is literary a trash bag with eyes. There’s a reason why nearly every list of awful pokemon designs contains this species.
Emboar looks rather derpy compared to the other fire starters, which is an opinion that a lot of people share. I personally consider it a design downgrade, but that’s been a common thing in all later generations…

and in the same vein as your earlier comment ‘rip offs’ of older gen pokemon despite both other gens having done similar things meaning other gens are guilty ot if you dont think those gens did ripping off, then unova wasn’t either

Gen 5 has quite a lot of such species and fans noticed that. Deal with it. Does every gen have a few lazy designs? Yup, but in gen 5 you don’t have just two or three pokemon families with this problem.

You just proved my point in your own comment

How exactly? Species with poor designs always get this response across generations. Gen 5 has both species with lazy designs and those with good designs

I point you to moves on tyranitar, darkrai, terrakion, cobalion, all three regi’s, and a lot of other pokemon i’m probably leaving out

And said moves mostly consist of slow one bar charge moves which are rather easy to dodge…

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