Movepool updates

They wrote that future legacy move returns are also coming back. SO Rock throw/rock slide omastar could also return eventually among other legacy moves

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That’s great. I hope they add more moves more often. The only downside is that we’ll need a ridiculous amount of TMs. Hopefully they make TMs more accessible or we can actually pick the move instead of it being random.

Time to evolve these!

Yes, but it’s a really good move in PvP, and makes Poliwrath objectively a lot better, even without STAB.

Again, yes, but better in PvP. Many of these moveset changes are specifically PvP oriented. Complaining that they aren’t good for raids is like going into a list serve for vampire based fan fiction and constantly complaining “Vampires aren’t real”.

And a very good rock move in PvP, just behind Rock Slide and maybe Stone Edge (depending on how you value the DPT/Speed tradeoff).

Between how good Confusion is, and the recent buff to Psychic, this combination is quite good for PvE as well as PvP. It will probably be a solid tank counter to Conkeldurr after certain flavors of Mewtwo, given that Espeon and Alakazam are so glassy.

Dragon breath totally rocks in PvP. It’s the preferred fast move for Gyarados if you can get it (and now you can). Agree completely with Twister, it seems that it’s only purpose is to give the Pidgey family access to a Dragon move. Possible use as a shield buster in PvP, but there are better choices.

Agree with PvE. DB/DC is really, really good in PvP. So good that it would be unfair to not give it to newer players in the new Battle leagues (the motivation for a lot of these changes). Personally, I started playing a few weeks after the game’s debut, and I didn’t get enough Dratini candy to evolve a Dragonite until after DB/DC were legacy, so I never got a crack at it. Now I do. Yay!

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Disagree, Conkeldurr is way more tanky than Lucario. Lucario has to rely on resistances or shield use to hang in there for a reasonable period of time. Conkeldurr just does that naturally. The real loser is Machamp, who will be third class when Conk comes out.

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Conceldurr feels to have gotten the short end of the stick, machamp’s got the luxury of being already powered up and accumulated in large numbers for most of us, it might be from the perspective of damage the inferior to Lucario and conkeldurr, but its already there and requires no additional input for many, and somewhat minimal for others, it likely will be phased out but at least it still has crosschop for master league. Lucario has the superior damage per second and current availability. Conkeldurr’s got only better natural bulk, yeah that thing can chunk hits well no shields or resistance needed, but with not currently being available, its likely only edges would be maybe a more common encounter since riolu can only be gotten via eggs, and machamp’s access to much better PvP moves for when It is phased out

I’m probably just going to go for conkeldurr just because I like it more, but its going to feel wierd intentionally going against my best of type style like I have for the last two years

Omastar can not learn Rock Throw

Not now, no. That’s the point. It’s a legacy move, and it may come back. Rock slide is also legacy, I have one of those, and it shreds Candela’s team all by itself, but mine has Water Gun. It will do even better with Rock Throw, unless the energy generation is too low. In that case, perhaps Mud Shot is viable, little damage but a lot of energy.

rockthrow’s got more damage 4 dpt v 3 dpt and energy 2.5 ept v 3 ept, so bit of a toss upwhich is better, but i’d say maybe throw it, since it beats her masters team better

mudshot I dont think would be good, mostly since its charge damage only, and she uses shields

According to Bulbapedia, Omanyte could learn it back in Gen 2, and Omastar learns it at level 26 in Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee.

Saying Conk shouldn’t be good just because you don’t like it is just disrespectful to the ones who do like its design (myself included). No matter how much you whine and complain about how it’s a “rip off” and “lacks creativity”, Conk will still be right behind Lucario.


It can learn it in Let’s GO, making it perfectly valid as a learnable move in PoGO. Aerodactyl also got Rock throw this way in one of the previous movepool updates.

Considering how most people don’t bother with pvp and how expensive a second charge move most of the time is… yeah, there’s a reason why I didn’t focus on their utility. For instance the closest pvp interest to me is a four hour drive away and not even in my own country.

I myself only unlock another charge move if it serves any kind of purpose in raids, unless it’s one of those cheap 10k moves. Making the only non 10k cost moves I unlocked so far those on Moltres, Breloom, Weavile and Latios.
So from the list here Golem seems sensible. But there are two drawbacks. The alolan version is better since it has wild charge and both versions have already rock blast, which does the same job regarding shield bating the grunts. And with charge moves always beeing limited, I would use which one I get sooner, since Golem really isn’t worth it when it comes to burning TMs.
As of cross chop machamp, does it have any value in the great league? I doubt it, since it’s not exactly the bulkiest fighter and I imagine medicham and toxicroak do a better job. In rocket battles Hariyama is preferable because of it’s bulk and being more reliable in firing off a charge move before fainting. I myself would also never unlock a second charge move on machamp, because of the reasons I listed above.
While Alakazam is glassy, Espeon has slightly more bulk and Eevee is ridicilously common. So exeguttor is not exactly a top pick for raids now, but it gets the job done. In pvp however, it does have more bulk, but a plethora of weaknesses as well, such as ice, fire, flying, double weakness to bug, ghost, dark, poison…
Yes, Dragon breath on Gyrados will be neat in rocket battles, although a 10 K second charge move unlock is really the saving grace here. Dirt cheap compared to the dragons and it will serve as a poor man’s latios/dragonite, with different weaknesses. Twister is kind of useless here though. Crunch charges just as fast and also hits harder. Plus twister combined with dragon breath is quite redundant, since both are only SE against dragons. That being said, this will make rocket battles quite tricky, since dragons were a popular pick vs waterfall.

The current placement is perfectly fine by me, so I don’t see where I am whining and complaining. Frankly, I’m more than pleased with how things turned out.
I just don’t want to see mons that have nothing going for them, bar slightly better stats outpacing the rest. Said thing is also echoed by a lot of the fanbase, so deal with it.

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Thats where you’d be wrong

crosschop’s significantly cheaper energy wise in pvp, yes dynamic punch is a better move over all in DPE, but frequently that will overkill or be roo slow to reliably secure matches. Its not like PvP is all bulky walls just chunking away at one another

So it’s a shield bating move… Aren’t the power up punch users better for that though?

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Yes, I know, you don’t do PvP. We’ve had this discussion before.

Your original post ignored the effects of what is basically a PvP update on PvP. I added the PvP spin for those who are interested.

Yes. Right now, the updated has Counter/Cross Chop/Rock Slide Machamp at #13 overall, a bit behind Medicham at #9 packing Counter/Dynamic Punch/Ice Punch. So they are very close in ranking, with different movesets. Clearly, since Machamp can also have DP, Cross chop is a slightly better fighting move, but Medicham has stats that are better for PvP, so it gets the edge. Rock vs. Ice on the secondary attack is another consideration, and could be the best way to decide between them (well, that and that Medicham has to be at level 40 while Machamp is around level 18, much cheaper to power up).

I kind of disagree. Twister is totally useless, completely lacking in value. TM immediately. Said as much above.

No. PuP was nerfed to the point of weakness, and is only useful as a shield baiting move. The attack buff is a minor factor since most PuP users lack the bulk to profit from it. (Now, if Snorlax had PuP, that would be, … interesting.)

Cross chop has a nice balance of speed and damage. Many battles are decided in the end by who gets the final charged move off first. Cross chop gets off faster, even if it does less damage per energy; that’s fine if that damage is enough to take out your foe’s last pokemon before he takes out yours.

This is utterly ridiculous. Why should Lucario get a move that is so incredibly broken that it redefines brokenness? Power creep for the sake of power creep reinforces my fear of a meta completely dominated by legendaries, megas and exclusive moves.

Furthermore, Riolu is only obtainable through 10km eggs, unlike Machop, which has been available in the wild since day one. Do you see the obvious cash grab by Niantic?

Strange, cause Lucario is none of that and has a broken move permanantly added to the movepool

Furthermore, Riolu is only obtainable through 10km eggs, unlike Machop, which has been available in the wild since day one. Do you see the obvious cash grab by Niantic?

Then explain to me how I manadged to have 600 lucario candy without buying incubators in stacks or putting rare candy into it.
Here’s a hint. 50 km a week rewards you with a 10 km egg, that has a 20% chance of hatching riolu and if one focuses on 7 km eggs and only hatches those, then even without buying incubators one hatches riolu.

CatEye has this one exactly right. Aura Sphere in PvE is overly strong. It’s like Dynamic Punch, a great move, but faster. The only saving grace is that Lucario has to rely on resistances to hang around a fight. If it had any bulk, it would be the best option for anything that doesn’t resist fighting.

True. However, Riolu is also available in adventure Sync 10k eggs, one of only six species there, so if one walks diligently, one can collect a Riolu egg, on average, every month and a half. Hatch it, lucky trade it, and you’ve got a top tier pokemon without spending any money. I’d argue that making Riolu eggs common in the wild would be more of a cash grab, since the big money players can run 9 incubators and farm eggs quickly, getting more Riolu (and everything else). This way, everyone get their one in six shot once a week, big money or free to play.

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