Musashi Heading Down on Tier List?

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So, I was just perusing the tier lists, and I noticed that Musashi’s entry has been affixed with the downward trend. What’s the reasoning for this? There isn’t another Saber that delivers the raw power that she does, and I can only see her direct competent (in overall value) being Nero Bride. Is this just an instance of the writing team reconsidering her position relative to how troublesome she can be to enable?

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She’s a ST Buster nuke-ish unit when the game gets more and more slanted towards AOE (especially in CQs), inherently limiting her optimal effectiveness, never mind how her gorilla deck doesn’t lend itself well to turn-by-turn NP gen.

Raw power doesn’t matter if I can take e.g. Gil and wipe more people in fewer turns than it’d take her to deal with one unit. Sure you can do Buster crit shenanigans but facecards are inherently less guaranteed-to-wreck vs simply filling your gauge and wrecking face, and if you get a bad hand she’s definitely not keeping up with the aforementioned example. (Yes, Gil is stupid broken, it’s ST Saber vs AOE Archer; but that doesn’t matter, if my goal is figuring out how to most optimally wreck someone then I’m going to look for that and subsequently that’s her competition.)

She’s hardly far from useless or w/e, she can obviously bring out some nasty nasty damage, but time doesn’t treat her well even now tbh (if not to Jalter levels who tbh was heavily outclassed even on release).

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It reflects her appearance in Shimosa. obviously.

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Both Bride and Okita deal more sustained damage than she does.

Bride and Okita can also loop their NPs with upcoming Summer BB’s cardlock—Musashi cab back to back once, not 4 times in a row.

Also, triple buster deck is awkward.

Musashi should have always been Tier 2/3 imo.

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I figured I’d update the Tier List already to make a more informed decision in 2 days, the Tier Placements post will come once all writeups are up (soon!).

Basically, the red arrow is for Servants we know we’ll mark down in the future. I had hoped to bump her to Tier 2 already, but we didn’t have a consensus other than “once Memelin is not as meta”. I’m sure you can bet your bottom that a certain tsundere is going to join her once we unleash the final might of our up and down arrows.

I can also spoil Paracelsus is getting 4 green arrows.

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I can also spoil Paracelsus is getting 4 green arrows.

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: G o o d.

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So what? ST Servants won’t have any right to exist anymore?

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:fgo_buster:

St nuke focused far too much on one turn burst when the meta is shifting towards more aoe based encounters not to mention the introduction of break bars meaning one turn burst is a lot less valued overall

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GP put more weight in favor of farming and AoE over boss killers and single target.

This is why you need to read the write ups in full. The tier number will mislead you if you have a different philosophy when it comes to rating servants.

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Tamamo tier EX+

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Musashi does more than one turn burst imo, given she can back to back NP, plus she can do some good buster crit damage when paired with Merlin.

Also what @Lost247365 says, it all depends on how you value your servants as well.

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That’s not what I said at all. Like, really?

Obviously, there are circumstances wherein ST is perfectly acceptable (look at the GUDAGUDA 4 CQ for one which Okita wrecked with 2x Skadi and other supports), but a lot of content, in terms of what is most optimal, yes, ST is broadly inferior to AOE.

Can you still care about them? Sure, whatever. Just as much as you can disregard tier lists altogether, whether you clear a CQ in 50 turns with a safe as heck Merlin/Jeanne/DD, or in 3T after several hours of resets, or in 10T doesn’t matter because the prizes are the same and it’s entirely PvE. That doesn’t mean something isn’t more or less optimal, and Musashi has her problems which are, well… problematic for clearing as quickly as possible even if she’s got some powerful bursts.

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We haven’t really discussed in detail whether we want to commit to a green arrow for Tamamo. I basically want these to be promises that we will move them. So if there’s a shred of doubt, we leave it open.

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fair enough, it’s not a Tamamo thread so I won’t give opinions on the matter of her placement outside of jests

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How far in advance are we talking about for these green/red arrows? I expect Bride will be kicked up a tier or two in two years time, but that’s obviously way far ahead.

The tense here is really important. I want to put more emphasis on it personally, but at the moment that is absolutely not the case outside of our support ranking. See all the top Servants being ST and some AoE Farmers having quite a low score even though they absolutely will be able to clear CQs just fine (Altria Lancer comes to mind).

But that is my own beef with the list.

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Current JP. Oh, and yes, she will move up.

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idk but it probably doesnt matter too much no worries

she didnt get nerfed or anything

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I am sorry but tier 3 is too low here
I can accept tier 2 and i am fine with that
But there is no way that musashi is a tier 3 servant

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