My Thoughts on the New SSR Tier List

First, respect to the writing team for the work that they do. I’m about to offer a lot of dissenting opinions, so I want to be clear that this is not personal criticism, neither should we indulge in such as we critique and make suggestions.

Sticking with SSRs for the moment, and including some newer placements for comment even if I don’t disagree (it can’t all be constructive feedback; need to recognize what’s working).

Note: There are way too many Servants for me to hit them all right now - going to cherry pick and maybe come back later if people are actually interested

Note #2: I highly value skill-based NP charge because of the flexibility it offers, especially where farming-capable Servants are concerned

SKADI: Fair placement. One can make a case for the very top, but if we’re going to consider the experience of newer players as well as experienced Masters, it’s not a sin to acknowledge that she isn’t as crazy broken in as many ways as Merlin is, neither is she quite as universal as Waver (damn close). What she enables is nuts, however.

TAMAMO (Caster): Many will disagree, but I don’t believe she earns an EX anything in the current state of the game on NA. Not until her rank-up quest hits. She’s by far the most niche of the premier supports and doesn’t belong on the same stage with Skadi.

OZYMANDIAS: Move to T2 or T3. Single-target Buster NP Servants can’t hang with T1 without a special gimmick, like Cu Alter’s unusual combination of extreme survivability and consistently high base damage. Ozy is a wonderful Servant package, but he’s neither a top DPS nor a top support. His buff success gimmick also isn’t worth as much as people tend to think it is since RNG buffers are almost always better supported by a dedicated support even if it means not being able to guarantee their buff effects.

HOKUSAI: Move back down to T2. I only say T2 because her trait is quite good, but realistically she is not as widely applicable as a T1 Servant should be. She is neither an efficiently looping farmer nor a top tier ST DPS; she is undeniably cool for a lot of CQs and other content featuring break bars, but she’s not as plug-and-play as a T1 listing would suggest.

GILGAMESH: Move back to T1. Despite being Buster-based, his anti-Servant NP remains one of the most broken tools in the game, not to mention that he enjoys uncommonly good gen stats due to his crazy high hit counts and his kit, which includes a 30% NP charge married to a star gather to further guarantee face card performance.

RAIKOU: I actually agree with this drop; she loses a rank in my opinion simply because she lacks a battery to further enable her destruction and doesn’t deal damage as impressively outside of her trait niche.

ISHTAR: Move up to T1. A very powerful Archer with a full-on 50% battery, team ATK and Crit Dmg support, and (chance-based) bonus effects on said battery.

QUETZLCOATL: Move to T4. Unlike Ozy, she doesn’t increase the entire team’s NP gauge, and her most relevant functions are otherwise somewhat similar.

MUSASHI: Move to T3. As impressive as she is under her best conditions, her lack of a persistent steroid combined with her lack of skill-based NP charge (as opposed to dependence on confluence of Fifth Form and crit Arts card) make her less stable in addition to being another ST Buster Servant.

DANTES: This one I agree with. He’s still not great in a vacuum, but we can’t pretend that Skadi doesn’t make him extremely useful.

JALTER: Move to T4. This is not the time of the Buster Crit monsters, and that’s almost her entire shtick. Despite being a strong neutral DPS, there are now too many options that are at least as effective and easier to enable than her. Although she has a 1T invuln, it’s attached to her big steroid and drains her already-low HP. She also cannot deal with enemy hard defense, leaving her with just the highly-situational buff block on her NP for debuff utility. Her special Dragon ATK buff is also rarely exploitable considering the party comps with which she works best.

JEANNE: T3 is the placement I’ve thought she should have for some time due to the comparatively less desired niche she rules.

ILYA: Personally I adore her, but girl is no longer hanging on to T3 and should drop to T5. She does one thing really well, and that’s delete one (especially Assassin) target; outside of that she’s strangely bulky but is grossly overshadowed by Sanzang’s performance.

SHUTEN-DOUJI: Move to T4. She’s not a bad Servant by any means, but being an Arts Assassin with no appreciable refund and no battery does not say “promote me.”

SCATHACH: Move back to T2. Despite her lack of either a battery or real refund, her NP is devastating, and the damage she can do with Skadi support combined with her ability to disrupt any target not immune to her stun is nothing less than impressive.

NAPOLEON: Move back to T3. He’s not as good as most of the other SSR Archers, but he’s still a powerhouse who also farms more than competently.

FIRST HASSAN: I agree with this placement until his rank up hits.

AMAKUSA: Move to T3. T2 is too high in the current system, but T4 doesn’t adequately represent his value in terms of sheer bulk and party utility, especially against a Servant enemy. As a bonus, he is a serviceable neutral damage farmer even at his minimum values and is easy to enable with any CE thanks to his battery.

ABIGAIL: Sadly I have to agree with T4. She’s a great bundle of effects, but she’s not as exciting to use as she should be. Her base NP gain is unforgivably bad; so bad that it’s hard to fix it even with buffs. The only thing saving her from T5 is her party NP charge and NP damage up, which actually allows her to replace Waver in certain comps.

VLAD: No argument. This is where he’s belonged for a while IMO.

ARJUNA: Move back to T4. I know Bad Archer Arjuna is a meme at this point, but he’s really not.

ANASTASIA: Move back to T3. A refund-friendly AoE Arts Servant with a 50% NP battery, one of the best Mana Burst skills in the game, party Charisma paired with AoE ATK Down, and an NP that inflicts both DEF Down and the situationally-useful-but-really-cool-when-it-matters Skill Seal? The only thing limiting her performance is damage, and she is an easy Black Grail pairing with her bulk and battery if higher damage is needed.

ERESHKIGAL: Move back to T3. She’s so easy to enable with her 50% battery, buffs party damage for subsequent waves with her NP and her S3 used in combination, increases team bulk and NP gain, and has a respectable burst turn. In no world is she a T5 option even though she is rarely the best option.

SEMIRAMIS: Move to T3. An Assassin with a 30% instant NP battery is a rare commodity, and she adds to party bulk whenever she NPs, giving her additional flexibility in harder fights. Her S3 is one of the strongest debuffs in the entire game despite its obvious limitations, and her self-buffed NP gain potential is impressive. Unless we assume that most players will have both native Skadi and either Dantes or high-NP lvl Lancelot, her farming role isn’t eclipsed by any means.

ARTHUR: Move to T4. He’s not as good at farming as his family, but he’s not as far away as his current (new) placement would suggest. At his worst, he’s a high-ATK Saber with a 20% NP battery and a modest star bomb. That’s T4 material in my book.

MHX: …what? With Skadi here, she’s at least a T4 simply by virtue of being Quick-focused, having good internals, and having a multi-hit NP.

KIARA: It’s okay gurl, I gotchu. This is one of the biggest “crimes” of the new tier list. Move to T3. A 50% NP charge Servant with built-in invuln pierce, decent refund potential from her multi-hit NP, a single-target Arts Resist Down, AoE DEF Down, massive 1T self-buffs + invincibility… Yeah, her NP damage base isn’t great due to her lack of persistent self-buffs, but she’s an excellent Servant within a broad niche and is also a top candidate for Black Grail shenanigans.

EDIT: As of 7/8 we have a consolidated forum thread for tier list update discussion. Linking here as a PSA for any new discussion so that we don’t accidentally make a number of new threads beyond this one.

41 Likes

This is very nice. I’d put Scathach in T3 because of NP gain problems (she can do it with her Buster cards, but that’s just a little weird and counterintuitive). And her NP often does way more damage than necessary for a boss with a break bar, so just having insane damage doesn’t mean as much as it used to.

T3 is “readily compensated by supports…against the right opponents” and yeah, with NP charge from a friend she’s golden. And against Divine she’s golden, since she can just NP nuke 1 turn and then crit w/1st and 3rd skills the next, so the damage is spread out.


Arthur just has too much competition for T4- until his Interlude, he loses to Altera as a Buster Crit AoE option, loses to Mordred for bulky AoE option, and loses to OG Saber for damaging NP AoE option (except against large ofc). And often “Large” enemies aren’t in a wave, so the AoE nature of his NP goes to waste.

I’m fine with him T6 (competition too strong and/or lack a strong specialization, but has a future upgrade to look forward too).

But otherwise yeah, this is nice :ok_hand:

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Thanks for the feedback!

Going to try to minimize my additional contributions so that the back-and-forth doesn’t take over, but I’ll quickly add that Altera’s lack of battery damages her flexibility as an AoE Servant, placing Arthur ahead of her in my assessment.

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yup. but definitely move her back to EX once her NP damage up is available.

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I don’t dislike and/or disagree with much of this on a very quick skim… but will leave it at that and be glad this was succinct and inoffensive. Previous comments made over the past few hours are otherwise where I fall… and while I like/might enjoy adding more cents to this for dialogue in itself (which truthfully is where like 95% of my enjoyment for this comes from)… perhaps later. Also, sheer amount listed.

But, yes… on their own terms this doesn’t strike me as bizarre, and makes me want to engage… so I think good job on what ultimately matters for stuff like this.

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Ahh, it seems we must now fight to the death. Such a shame.

I don’t think there’s really anything I can say on this topic that I haven’t said before, though. I just feel I must submit a dissenting opinion.

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My question is: why isn’t Gou on the writing team yet?

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Kind of you, but I’ve never thought to ask ;) They probably have enough staff writers with more experience with the game.

Isn’t there also gonna be a command code that ups gilgamesh’s “weak to enuma elish” damage modifier?

On face card only, and the modifier is quite low. So generally only works well on a buster crit.

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The servants I am familiar and have experience with I agree with your assessment, i found a lot of the shifts down odd. I want to make a where did Kiara touch you on the doll joke but its just low hanging fruit with her.

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I don’t envy the job of the writers trying to classify the SSRs especially into tiers. There are so many ways to play this game and so many priorities a player can have that ranking is an especially tough job.
Part of me is tempted to write/suggest more specialised tierlists (sorted by stallers, CQ specialists, 3T farmers, solo potential etc) so that players can access a more specialised assessment of each servant based on the way they like to play, or even just ideas for strong strategies, for example, for when they don’t quite have the burst to successfully win a damage race and want to pivot to a stall structure.
That’s a huge amount of work though ^^;

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I share @Yunchii’s sentiment

I was really surprised to see her in line with Skadi at this moment but tbf New Years is less than half a year away so putting her up there now is kinda whatever imo

Gil, Shishou and Semiramis were placed much lower than I expected.

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On the topic of Shishou, I can now see in my own Chaldea how disgusting she is in a double Skadi setup, and mine is only NP2 with lvl 6 skills.

She’s not running much of a self-sufficient engine without great card RNG, but slap a superscope on her and watch her hit like a truck unchallenged for at least two consecutive NP turns. If she gets trait damage on one of those turns from her 3, hoo boy.

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I also don’t get why MHX and Maid Alter dropped so much when they finally have their own Support. With Skadi’s help these two hit insanely hard and can refill their bars much easier than before.

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Yeah, I feel like MHX gets an unusual amount of flack. Her skill set isn’t the greatest, but strong internals, a defense down, attack up and invincibility from her upgraded skills alone make her a pretty powerful neutral damage dealer who can buzzsaw through rider, zerker and saber/saberface bosses.

Slap a Star Absorb CE on her and she’ll easily crit near every turn she’s allowed to generate stars.

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Tbh with this change I’ve finally lost what little faith I had in GP’s tier list. That Kiara placement is unforgivable in my books. I certainly won’t be refering to their tier list anymore, I feel like they minimized individual values of servants to an unbelievably low degree, evaluating them much more highly based on supports. In what world is Gil not tier 1, while Hokusai is good she isn’t THAT good, etc. While a lot of servants deserve their spots a lot of prominent servants don’t.

I feel like they are judging half the servants on optimal conditions while not applying the same to the others.

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For real I just saw the tier list.
What were you guys thinking with this,this is horrible lol.

I get Raikou,but gil seriously Gil not one servant has the niche he has and with that niche no one can come close to him.

Gil Always should be in tier one just because of that NP there shouldn’t even be any debate about this.

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All 50% battery servants should be automatically Tier 1. Yes, including Kintoki Berserker. All other servants with battery should be at least Tier 2.

Heracles is Tier Ex.

I will choose my 50% servants nearly all the time I am farming. They are far easier to use with useless event CEs. I am only missing Kintoki Berserker for the complete 50% set of at least one for every major class. :slight_smile:

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I’ve slept on it and I still find the Gil v Hokusai v Kiara issue completely baffling.

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