New Rank Up & Interlude Tier Changes

#1

Hey everyone,

Another installment of the Tier List Change Log is here, this time disguised and hidden within the new Rank Ups/Interludes (oh how devious). I’m sure some of it will be surprising (Jeanne for Tier 2 and not 1!?), and some of it utterly predictable (Helena Tier 2 at last! Justice for NP charging!). I’ll be interested to hear what you have to say.

We also had some new blood come in at last, although they haven’t had much time yet to broach new Servants to discuss. Shuten did come up - but support for a movement upwards was slim. I’m sure we’ll have some more changes coming in the weeks to come. I also inquired about getting those arrows for future movements, but that’s still in the dev queue I suppose!

A small note on Astolfo is that we expect we’ll massively shift his placement once he actually gets his NP charge. We’ll see what we decide, but Tier 2 is actually in the cards.

(Note: I will be going to sleep soon, so don’t be discouraged if I don’t respond right away!)

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#2

:fgo_buster: It’s almost like this note was made specifically for me.

13 Likes
#3

More like disappointing in regards to Jeanne,

I’ll be blunt, using a combined rating for farming and CQ is dumb. Jeanne is being penalized for content she wasn’t even designed for. That is like rating on damage and support then saying Merlin sucks because his NP does no damage.

Content that in other games they call “trash clearing.” But we are going to down-rate Jeanne over content that you have almost no chance of losing?

:fgo_deadinside:

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#4

They specify it’s not just trash clearing issues but also that there is challenging content coming where Jeneane’s precedence will lower team damage sufficiently to make her inclusion non-viable. I can’t speak as to the truth of that and i have issues with some servants placements too, but in this case at least they state clear reasons for the stance that make sense to me.

#5

They are probably referring to rashomon and onigashima type quests where you have to do as much damage as possible in 15 turns, so servants that have a low base attack and focus on zombie playstyle don’t work very well.

#6

They also said,

And Jeanne is a stall servant. She is for content where you can actually lose. To quote them,

Why hold content not intended for stall servants against her? Why is trivial content being held against a servant intended for the hardest content. Again, it like saying Merlin sucks cause he doesn’t do much damage. Or saying best in slot tanking gear in other games is bad because you can use dps gear on farm content.

Then let them know! That is what these threads are for! To discuss tier placement! If they didn’t care what we think they wouldn’t put it up for discussion on the forum!

That said, I am certain that my disagreement won’t change things (nor should they change the tier over one person’s objection). But I am still going to let them know that I STRONGLY disagree with their decision. Jeanne might not be Merlin level but she is still one of the best supports and tanks in the game and deserves better than above average, she deserves tier 1.

6 Likes
#7

I agree with everything you said. She’s the best in her niche and it’s a strong niche. She keeps the team alive at the cost of not providing offensive support or damage. She excels at keeping the team alive, there’s plenty of content that needs that and she is the top of her class in that content.

All in all, happy she’s up a tier, disappointed it wasn’t tier 1 though.

4 Likes
#8

Must admit I’m surprised Siegfried is still below Salter.

#9

I failed to see why jeanne is on tier 2 when she’s the best servant in her niche and that debuff cleanse is useful against enemy that like to put alot of debuff (tiamat).

Compared to tamamo, i find jeanne more versatile being able to help new master without much need of an arts-servant and jeanne can help all type of servant. While i ran tamamo-demiya-jeanne agaist shiki in seraph event, i find her stun more useful that tamamo drain (pre-buff jeanne with vessel of the saint CE). While tamamo help demiya and jeanne by her np and arts buff you’ll need a arts-based servant but with merlin alot of master prefer buster-servant. In conclusion I find jeanne versatility more useful that tamamo niche. Im a F2P player so having a servant that can improve my current roster in CQ without having to require servant that fits to another support servant.

Tl;dr jeanne versatile niche > tamamo strong but limited to art servant niche.

I know that some prefer specialists than versatility but since im F2P i dont have that many servant so im rounding up my team by having a versatile servant in it

Feel free to point out my mistake and ill edit it

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#10

The thing with jeanne is that imagine her being your only ssr and having a max mash. You could run a double jeanne mash post interlood and you basically have a team that literally won’t fucking die. yea it will take like 200+ turns on challenge quest but who cares when you win in the end. I don’t rly care much for the tier list but i do agree that jeanne should rly be put in tier 1 next to tamamo.

4 Likes
#11

Without offending any of the Jeannu stans, I think tier 2 is fine for her. My reasoning would be simple: I’m not taking Jeanne along with me outside of a handful of times in a calendar year. It doesn’t really matter how much she crushes what she’s good at if you rarely get the chance to put her to use. I know that is roster dependent to a degree but seriously: did I take Jeanne along in Shinjuku? No. CCC? Not once. Memorial Salter Quest? Yes. That single quest right there is the only time my NP2 7/7/7 Jeanne has had boots on the ground so far in the year 2019. Tier 1 servants should be usable on any roster with relative consistency. I don’t know if that’s how gamepress people see things but if I were to make my own tier list, which I won’t, that would be part of the criteria.

Disclaimer: One of the last hills I ever intend to die on is arguing anything contained in tier lists. Just my quick thoughts.

2 Likes
#12

I see her like a parachute.

Some 99.9% of the time you don’t need her. But when that 0.1% or however much that you do need her will be greatly appreciated.

We have five tiers of servants per rarity plus one ex tier for “legendary” servants. Tier 3 is your average SSR servant. Tier 2 is above average. Jeanne is very much better than “above average.”

#13

I’m agree with most of above comment but.

I mean, that’s the reason why tier list exist.
People can run both of jeanne and clear CQ with 200+ turn, but instead running that why not making a specific team with tamamo/merlin?
That’s why the writers said :

Jeanne remains a slow clearer as well, with little use outside of the hardest content, especially if a Master is in no danger of being defeated.

So if we face a really difficult situations, like we can’t really CQ faster, then we can simple tap jeanne and using her.

As most of you guys already said that jeanne play a really good role being a universal support, but imo the difference between her and merlin/tamamo are she didn’t offer ATK/Buff to increasing DPS output.
Yes she work really great to keep the party alive (heal, removing debuff, stun, an invicibility), but the only one she can offer to DPS to increase damage output are crit stars.
Maybe that’s the reasons why they keep her at tier 2.

If you ask why i think that team-wide buff is one of their tier placement reason, maybe because i read this

Regrettably, she does not have much to offer to the team due to her lackluster Caster damage output and a lack of teamwide utilities on her skills.

It’s from Da Vinci description.
Like why should mentioning that?, Da Vinci indeed a AOE DPS with survival abilities, should they mention a timewide buff?, lol.
That’s the reasons why i think that they not just judging the placement because of the servant niche itself.
It’s contain :

  1. Being Support who can keep party alive and in same time giving buff to dps
  2. Being DPS while in same time give party wide buff
    ,etc

And looks like jeanne failed in point 1.
You can blame me because my opinion.
I know that’s this pov can insult jeanne fans, i’m sorry about that.
But, tbh i love her character,gameplay, etc (even if i don’t have her, sad).
Her skill, niche, etc as good as all of you have said, but looks like it still doesn’t fill the 1st tier criteria by gamepress.
It’s must be really helpful if they share all of the criteria needed to fit the tier placement, so there’s no misunderstanding about the placement itself.

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#14

The only thing that i dont like about jeanne is her lackluster skill. i wish theirs a flat 5np per turn in her revelation since the star gain is low :fgo_badciv:

#15

Change 2nd skill to party ATK buff and you got another maybe EX or guaranted 1st tier :fgo_buster:

#16

I can’t really see Astolfo being anything higher than tier 4 once his np charge buff arrives.

The 50% charge to his NP gauge will definitely help for farming and has a decent 3 hit evade tied to it too but the skill it’s applied to still has a huge 8 turn cooldown at max level which is especially bad when you consider how unreliable the other effects attached to it are in practice. Doesn’t help that there are 6 turn cooldowns to skills that offer either a 50% charge to NP or something like 20%-30% to NP gauge but with a buff alongside it.

If they buffed his other two skills to be more than just crappy versions of Medusa’s skills that fix his other flaws like mediocre damage output and utility that’s more than an unreliable stun which also has a huge 8 turn cooldown he’d be at least something close to decent instead of one of the best servants to convert to rare prisms.

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#17

Or a targetable buff that increase the np gauge and np damage of an ally :fgo_buster:

#18

There are multiple servants in the T1 slot that don’t do much/anything more than be incredible damage dealers with some selfish support skills.

The issue with Jeneane is that if it’s not content you need to stall in to win there’s no good reason to bring her. Her power is hugely dependent on how developed a given masters roster is. Someone with only her as an SSR and very few 4 stars is going to find her a godsend in some parts of the game. But someone with a more well developed roster is going to find her to be un-needed in most content.

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#19

One of my colleagues raised an excellent point: which AoE SR Servants actually have a 50%+ NP charge? The list is ridiculously small.

#20

Salter hits massively harder than Siegfried - her NP Damage really is rather spectacular for an SR Servant.

The value of the niche a Servant is in must be assessed as well - the anti-dragon trait is nice, but it’s still not a very broad one.