One reminder about Lucario and Conkeldurr before everyone said "Machamp is dead"

Not everyone can build a team worth of 6 Lucarios.

Anyone and their mother can build an army of 6 Machamps.

I’m not sure with Conkeldurr, but it seems like that is a 10km egg mon so again, you might not be able to assemble 6.


Machamp is dead.

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My mother would most certainly disagree with you. :wink:



(though seriously, Machamp will never be dead in Pokemon Go. It might end up being #4, 5 and 6 on a Fighting team instead of #1,#2,#3,#4,#5 and sometimes #6, but for the next 3 years it’s going to be half of most Fighting teams at least.)


Easy accessibility is still a good factor to which Pokemon are the top. Remember when we only had Raikou, Zapdos and Jolteon as Electric type attackers?

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The Champ is dead. Long live the Champ.

At least players with a dozen phones can use their Machamp army to help carry them.

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Right now I have 1 lucario. Just gave him aura sphere and ya he held up against some DG blissey well, but I’m not going to get to the point where I’ll have enough replace all 6 of my DP Champs! And conkeldurr? Unless gurrdurr is a tier 2 raid it will be ages till I get enough of them too

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Agreed, and I think this is the position most players will find themselves in. I have one Lucario that’s maxed out (and damn does it put in work), but I certainly don’t have the resources to go making an army of them.

Plus, it’s important to keep in mind that Machamp didn’t get nerfed in this update. It still does all the things its been doing just as well. There just happens to be a new guy in town that does those things better.

On a side note, the animation for Aura Sphere is…odd. Like, here, I’m gonna throw this vortex of air at you, and you’re gonna get hurt before it even leaves my hands. The damage window definitely doesn’t sync up with the animation at all.


I think people are just having a band-wagon mentality right now. This is not the “first time” Machamp was surpass in an area. Breloom technically had higher DPS than Machamp and Hariyama had so much more bulk. Why didn’t everyone blow up the world about them? I think it is simply because Gamepress stated that Breloom is too frail, Hariyama has lower attack than Machamp. To top it off, they both have “copypasta” Counter/Dynamic Miss- I mean, Punch.

For Lucario, people lose their minds because they see a signature move name, a movie-star Pokemon, a limited understanding of DPS/TDO mechanic, and finally “Champ is dead”- hype post in forums and articles. Suddenly, we get a whole wave of “less-knowledgeable” players deleting their Machamp, selling their houses, burning their cars, eating their babies- woah, wait… back up…!

What I am trying to say that instead of just saying Machamp is dead, we need to do an in-depth comparison between Machamp and Lucario, and assess Lucario’s new position instead of tearing down Machamp.


I also agree about Machamp being dead is probably a vague and misleading statement.

As many say above, Machamp is very accessible compared to the other two. For example i am a very dedicated player, i have managed to evolve 1 Riolu since its release, and this is a GL tier Lucario that i intend to keep there. So for the foreseeable future i do not see Lucario in my raiding team, which is a shame because he is one of my all time fave mons.


Thank you.

“Machamp is dead”? Give me a break. Unless things changed recently, Riolu only comes in eggs (right?), which means getting a Lucario is entirely a matter of pretty good luck. And before anyone says “wild caught pokémon is also a matter of luck” don’t start comparing wild encounter luck and hatch luck :smile: Hardcore players do play the game of chance more and so happen to win more, but still, the guy is rare. This topic coming from someone who plays as much as you do is telling!

I am certainly not representative of the player base, especially the kind of people ready to replace Machamps with Lucarios, since I am a rather casual player that gave up chasing things too hard. I just take them as them come. Meaning I won’t have a Lucario anytime soon - I never even had a Riolu. I will sure still use Machamp for the foreseeable future, and not only Machamps, since the bloody TM lottery didn’t allow me to get a team of 6 DP Machamps… So I’m fighting with Brelooms and a Hariyama too, and they deliver.

Machamp is not dead. Machamp is the 99% :fist:


Machamp will still beat Lucario when Heatran returns in T5’s (probably as a shiny as well). And against the common Rock/Ground types Lucario will lose as well when they hit back with Ground type moves. So overall Lucario is a great update indeed, but still plenty situations Machamp will beat him.

Bruh, those are situations where you wouldnt use a Machamp anyway

Why werent Breloom and Hariyama as hyped as Lucario is right now? Dunno, maybe because Breloom’s DPS advantage is rather small and trades a LOT of bulk to get that and Hariyama simply doesnt reach its DPS
Lucario, despite being a bit more frail, is the 6th highest DPS Mon and one of the best Ultra League Pokémon, in adition to having the best charge move in the game to be the best gym sweeper
EDIT: My bad, didnt realise GO doesnt give him Ice Punch


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Delete the first one of those list: Excadrill doesn’t like Fire that much. Mamoswine actually hates Both Fire and Steel. Rhyperior hates steel as well.
And next to that: you completely miss my point.

Not all heatran run fire-type moves though

Weirdest thing to bring up ever. Why would anyone use Machamp and Lucario against a Heatran raid when even something like double ground Gastrodon works better. Not like many ground types are inaccessible either. No sinnoh stone, it’s good Rhydon is still 6th overall. Ground ground Golem and Swampert are great too.

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Well it’s not “band-wagon mentality” - Lucario with Aura Sphere has the better time to win and even less deaths to win against great pokémon such as Dialga and Black Kyurem than all other great Fighting pokémon. So in practise Lucario is now the best Fighting pokémon - if you like it or not. But you’re right that Machamp is better in practise than Breloom and Hariyama, but once released Conkeldurr will also be better than Machamp. It doesn’t mean Machamp is “dead” though because most players don’t have the ressources to power up a lot of Lucarios and we all know it will often take more than one fighting team for each player to beat the legendary bosses - unless you’re in a big group and it actually doesn’t really matter what you use. In small groups Lucario will undoubtedly be a hit - a Fighting champion!


I’m in the minority on this, but I don’t make six-teams of anything. I have the resources for three maxed Lucario right now, but I’m stopping at one. My unique Fighting team of Lucario, Machamp, Hariyama, Heracross, Breloom, and (eventually) Conkeldurr will be a lot of fun.


Same thoughts.

I’ve also ran Emboar sometimes if I needed to deal with Normals.