PSA: Avicebron is bugged

I noticed something odd about Avicebron a month ago

Incorrect assumptions

but it wasn’t until yesterday that I compared the NA and JP servers.
Perhaps this is already well known but his behaviour isn’t consistent on the two servers , the big difference is how his third skill works.

On NA the Invincibility counts down before enemy action but on JP it does that after.
In effect right now on NA it only provides a benefit for 2 turns and for the final turn it will just give a false sense of security as the buff will expire before the enemy acts.

In general this problem might not occur often but I’ve managed to trigger it a couple of times unintentionally.
For example I’ve had this problem during semi-solo with Avicebron (PG), x, Georgios when I rushed with my alt.
I’m speaking from personal experience that it is possible that the solo servant could eat an NP that you believed the buff would soak.
This has happend on two different phones and accounts so it doesn’t feel like an isolated incident.

I’ve shared my findings with FGO support so hopefully this will be solved.

Edit: After @Justsomeguypassingby identified some of the faulty conclusions I had drawn, I did another test with equal base conditions.
It is only when Chen Gong is used to kill Avicebron that the skill behaves differently.
On both NA and JP the Invincibility buff lasts 3 turns HOWEVER the remaining stacks will remain for an additional player phase.
As such be aware that it might prevent some defensive measures such as Merlin’s Illusion from being used on turn 4.

Links to videos of two recent trial runs

https://youtu.be/PwVjZDYU_8A
https://youtu.be/WjODq1zqYFo

8 Likes

Haven’t used much of Avicebron, but from your research, it does seem like a bug. Hopefully, devs and officials get on this soon.

I hope so as well.
I’m pretty sure it won’t be a major issue for most people but the fact that the buff just disappear and prevent other Invincibilities could potentially cause the front row to get wiped out by an AoE NP.

I only found it by sheer luck when I rushed the main quest on an alt account.
Most of my “strategy” was Avicebron (Poster girl),x and Georgios.
It was only when Enkidu ended up being damaged despite my prediction of a flawless victory that I started to wonder.

Before yesterday I hadn’t actually used Avicebron’s third skill on JP as I lacked the means to have him killed at a proper time so this was interesting.

Hey brother, while this is a bit misleading it is expected behavior and not a bug they are acting the same on both servers. What you’re doing on JP and NA is different. The turn counter was bugging me because it was falling off of JP at the end of turn three enemy phase and NA at the end of turn 4 ally phase.

To put it simply, Avicebron is dying at different times in your two videos. In JP you are killing him during the Player phase with that dude using his NP, on NA you are killing him on the enemy phase by having him die when he is killed.

The skill then lasts for the same period of time.

1 Like

In essence you arn’t missing out on a turn of invincibility on the NA vid, you are just getting a weird tailing end buff. In both you receive the invincibility for the enemy phase of turn 1 2 and 3, but because you activate the buff later than buffs usually get activated it carries over to the player phase on turn 4 on NA (since it wasn’t active for the player phase of turn one there but was on jp).

You should also see this behaviour on any buff from a CE that activated on unit death.

If you could somehow use waver’s buff during the phase when the enemy is acting you’d see the same result (obviously you can’t). If its ‘bugged’, its bugged on both because of the underlying logic behind how buffs work. I don’t have a JP account to test this but if you let Avicebron die on the enemy phase instead of killing him on the player phase you should see the same behaviour as on NA. If you do then my logic is sound and its misleading but expected.

While a defense/guts/invincibility/dodge that ends before the enemy attacks is useless, an attack up or crit up is not and and the same buff logic applies to both. Its not good for the player in the defence et al. case but it is just how the game works.

2 Likes

:feh_azurafacepalm:
I thought the buff activated turn 2 on the NA version, my fault for not paying attention. No, you were right in your original comment. Sorry for the mix-up. :catroll:

Its all good, its VERY easy to miss (especially because on JP the enemy dies before they get to act, and on NA the last thing they do for turn one is kill Avicebron).

I only got to it by working backwards because I noticed the turn counter and checked closely.

Ah but now we have another problem, if the buff stacks continue on to the 4th turn player phase only, they’re useless against the enemies but you wouldn’t be able to stack another Invincibility over them to save yourself(Merlin’s 2nd skill) right?

Oh.
I hadn’t considered that it could behave diferently when I killed him off.
I figured it would work the same as if the enemy wiped him out.
I don’t believe that I have got any taunt CEs so it will be hard to test that out.
Edit: Will try and see if I can’t get a suport Emiya and Chen Gon’s taunts to kill him… after the maintenence.

That said it is still a problem that the buff trails onto the an additional turn.
I’m pretty sure you can’t stack additional Invincibilities.

While its a problem for us in terms of what it lets us do (and it would be really nice if they fixed that) it does what it says on the tin to our benefit or detriment.

Its annoying design for sure, and I’d love them to change it (split defensive buffs into their own category and end them early if they’re going to end after the player turn?).

I’m not even sure if I’d term it a bug at this point, because for all we know they intended that to be a drawback associated with the skill which Cheng Gong then bypassed by killing him early. It seems unlikely I’ll admit but when Avicebron was released you’d only ever see him die on the enemy phase so they had to know it would play out this way (or if they didn’t they never decided to fix it once they realized).

Its broader than just Avicebron as well as you’d expect the same issue with the Divine Princess of The Storm CE in terms of the visually misleading aspect, though of course it doesn’t have the downside of not being able to apply further buffs.

Anyway, I’m contacting support myself about this because regardless I’d like to see it changed

True.
It does last 3 turns.

Isn’t it already?
Doesn’t Mana burst skills expire before the enemy acts while evads after?

Hadn’t considered those two points.
A handicap can be interesting and it would encourage different behaviour and awareness.
Still I’ll test how it works on JP in an hour.

Hmm.
I’ll have to test the princess CE as well.
A preliminary work could be done by examining Lily Aquina’s Ibaraki videos.

Edit2: In the Akechi video the first Princess CE holder died at T2 and the buff expired before the enemy acts at T5.
Seems your assumption was correct.

Tested it and you were right.
The fact that Chen Gong killed him made the skill act differently.
He died on turn 1 and the buff vanished at turn 4 before the enemy phase.

I’ll update the opening post.

1 Like