Quick question about EMIYA (assassin)

In the recent gacha I got, like, eight copies of the guy. In his tier rating, it said that one of his weaknesses was due to little accessibility to his higher NP levels. Since I’ve got him at that level now, would that technically put him higher on the tier list for me or no?

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Don’t take tier lists as an absolute truth as each servant has their own specialisation. It’s best if you actually read the servant write-up on their page.

The biggest problem with EMIYA (assassin) in my opinion is his awful NP gain. He charges up his NP absurdly slowly but he has some nice stall utility and good stargen. He’s not the worst servant but he doesn’t pair well with servants who aren’t arts-oriented.

At the start of 2020, though, we will get the KnK rerun which will allow you to get Ryougi Shiki who is easily one of the best assassins.

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It definitely makes him more competitive with Shiki, a free NP5 ST Arts Assassin (most can generally expect to have him NP0-1 short of high-spending or silly luck), setting aside their kit differences i.e. his fitting more easily into stall comps. Heck, it even puts his pure NP damage on par with Shiki after her future NP Upgrade.

Ultimately though, for most purposes he will be replaceable with her due to her 30% charge making her better for insta-nuking, given that farming makes up a majority of the game and in terms of non-farming it’s more effective to kill asap. Never mind her Evade for extended fights and 3T crit amp, like he has, although unlike him she’s strong at genning stars and gauge which work nicely with her role as an Arts critter. She can pretty easily come in as a secondary attacker, get off her NP, or w/e, should the DD before her fall.

Still, having your own NP5 Kerry is pretty nice if you wanted to e.g. run Kerry/Tamamo/Mash and make ample use of Scapegoating the other two so he can continue being a DD. Pretty bulky, makes up for Kerry’s worst trait in his awful NP Gen, and allows you to hold off an enemy’s gauge with high reliability in between Curse and Kerry’s own charge reduction. Like her he’s still got that invul pierce as well, giving him some added utility/methods of bypassing annoying enemies

Afaicr - although I may be mistaken here - GP’s tier list doesn’t take into account differing NP levels, just judging based on kit effectiveness and kit effectiveness vs the competition. So Shiki or other SRs in general, wherein you get to the point of his likely being at low NP levels for most people while literally everyone who keeps up with KnK will have NP5 Shiki, or how he doesn’t function very effectively outside of his dedicated comps/is essentially glued to Tamamo for effective play, respectively. So no, it would not by GP’s standards, Which tracks anyway, really: He still completely lacks durability (with his targetable Taunt being irrelevant vs AOE attacks), and despite his fantastic hit counts his gen is still abysmal.

Emiya Assassin mostly looks bad due to Shiki, honestly. She’s a free NP5 with a similar kit, trading NP drain and the targeted taunt for a battery and hard defense through evade. As most people will have Kerry at NP1, there isn’t much reason to use him over Shiki.
With your Emiya being NP5, he’s going to beat Shiki for damage until she gets her Interlude in a bit less than 2 years, so he’s actually gonna be pretty competent - his NP will hit like an absolute truck for an Assassin. As mentioned by @ACExDiscostu93, his horrid NP gain is his weakness but he packs other useful tools that Shiki doesn’t.
NP5 is a very significant boost that can make servants who are considered “mediocre” or “weaker than easily accessible alternative XYZ” pull ahead a lot of the time. So yes, don’t get too hung up on tier lists. Kerry’s going to do a lot better than the tier list insinuates due to NP5.

Yeah, GP tier lists dunk on Kiritsugu because he fills the same role as Shiki, except Shiki is better and is an easy NP5. A lot of people, including myself, started after the Shiki event, however. You’ll find that Kiritsugu is a more-than-capable ST assassin. Still way better than most of the 4-star assassin line-up.

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While we’re on the topic, GP’s writeup of Emiya only mention vanilla 5* CE recommendations (formal craft, kaleid, etc.) for him. Are there any more recent CEs that y’all would recommend putting on sad dad?

So far I’ve been using Dive to Blue with alright results, but am definitely open to other options.

I do not agree that Shiki has a good star generation, at least not when compared to Emiya assassin. To me it has always been the opposite. There’s hardly a need for Shiki when you have emiya at high NP level. People say that emiya is hard to fit on a non-arts team, I would argue that Shiki does not really fit on an arts team, which is easily worse IMO. Emiya’s hit counts are really without equal in the game. Sure Aoe NP has more hit counts than him but against a single enemy emiya is the king in terms of number of hits. His good star gen gives him more Crits and his NP will not look that bad after that.

“Arts team” is really just a colloquial term for “this servant is easily boosted by Tamamo”, honestly. Emiya and Shiki work just fine without Tamamo and can both generate a fair amount of crit stars on a brave chain. Less than 50 but more than 30 usually. I think Emiya generates a few more but its hardly an important factor. Emiya has the benefit of NP drain which makes him nice for stall/drain comps, but his low NP gain makes him a bit inconsistent in that regard.

For CEs, you can usually find their low rarity counterparts. Formal Craft is arts up, lower rarity equivalents would be Projection and Azure Black Keys, but really there are many arts up CEs out there. Use any of them.

Stargen I’ll give you after glancing through the command chain numbers and noting for the future, but how in the world does Shiki not fit on an Arts team? They heavily overlap (ST Arts, Arts buff, crit buff, 1/3T invul pierce, DEF ignore on NP), it’s one reason they’re compared so frequently, you might as well say he doesn’t fit either.

Mainly because arts team are casters and NP draining. Not fit is a bad way to phrase it in my part. But emiya benefits from arts teams and arts team benefit more from emiya compared to Shiki.

NP rate up for his main problem.
star rate up if he’s your arts team’s star generation.
arts performance up helps his sucky arts cards.
He’s already got great crit damage, but no draw. This is fine if you’ve only got Tamamo and caster Gil as teammates, but Mash, other sabers (Lanling I guess?), and anyone else with higher star weight is going to compete with him if he’s your damage dealer.
attack up is basically all he’s missing internally.

So anything with two or three of those.
for concrete suggestions
(welfare CE) The Classic Three Great Heroes is a little iffy, but has NP damage and star drop rate. 40% starting gauge is usually awkward, but should be fine in an arts team.
(welfare CE) Holy Night Supper
The Glory is With Me, Reading on the Holy Night, Cute Orangette, Chocolatier, Conversation on the Hot Sands, Summer Little, etc.
Definitely not Origin Bullet though.

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Ah, I understand where you’re coming from now. Yeah, he’s definitely more suited to outright stall. I would still sooner take Shiki and don’t think one invalidates the other due to their distinct differences, but can see why you’d say that yeah.

It’s a generic recommendation, but Emiya is a great user of Golden Sumo and Holy Night Supper. His bad NP gain + his relatively high refund on his NP means that starting NP is essential for him.

I recommend you go for him, since NP5 is never a joke.
However, his is somehow luxury to perform. The most critical issue, is his trash-level np gain (only Vlad is worse than him) so you have to use Art team and make Art chain for him as much as possible.
But Art team or Art chain=abandon his good Quick card performance and star generation=abandon his critical damage role. That make his 2nd skill almost useless except Ignores Invincibility.
It also means he has some kind of conflicted gameplay. And he has to become an “abnormal” assassin.
People always use Shiki has their own reason. For gameplay, Shiki has way better np gain, and post-strengthened NP make she can further burst more np damage. In combination with her 3rd skill and potency for NP spam, she still can make any rider enemy pain.

So overall, I recommend you invest him, especially based on his unique 3rd skill. But no need to rely on him as your only ST assassin.

Correction: not even Vlad is worse than him.